The book of Job, my favorite book.

What is speaking right about God? Isn't this about salvation? Isn't it when we confess our sins to Him, and put on his righteousness? Job did not do that until the 42 chapter. We know, prior to that, Job spoke without knowledge.

The context makes it clear. Everything that satan did was under God's control. I.e. you CAN do this, but you CAN'T DO THAT.

Only according to your private Interpretation/Paradigm

Job was hardcore, seriously, who can suffer that much and still remain faithful. Maybe he was 1 or 2 of 50 billion since the beginning of time. (excluding Jesus).

The discrepancy highlighted is not a private interpretation. You stated God was after two things in allowing Job to suffer, namely 1) personal pride, and 2) self-reliance on his own power. That is what you stated. So God would have a *cause* and a *reason* to let Job suffer, right? Needing Job to suffer for his pride and self-reliance (you say) would be a *cause* for his suffering. And yet, God plainly states that satan incited God to make Job suffer *without* cause. It can't be both. These ideas are completely contradictory. That's not an opinion. It's in the text.

Totally agree with you here.

Of course confessing our sins is right in the eyes of God. Yes. But it seems you may be trying to imply Job's confession at the end is what God is referring to when he says Job spoke rightly about Him. But again, the comparison God provides is between what Job says and what Job's friends say. If you are comparing those two categories of speeches, they are the ones that appear in chapters 4 - 31. So it is those speeches God is referring to when He says Job spoke rightly about Him.

Yes, Job spoke without knowledge. That is a fact. However, as mentioned in a previous reply, that does not mean Job was wrong in what he said. Is it difficult to hear some of Job's words? For me, yes. But to accuse him of being wrong? What does God say?

I like the assessment of others that liken this story to a court case. Yes, Job is taking God to court and putting Him on trial. Job wants answers. He wants to know what happened to his *relationship* with God. During the trial, Job does not give up on wanting God, seeking God, and praying to God. Keeping the court analogy, when Job finally sees God, he effectively says, "I drop my case. I withdraw my complaint." God effectively askes Job if he would like to keep pressing charges against Him (God) and convict Him, but Job says no. Despite the fact that Job has legitimate reason to bring his complaint (again, he did nothing to deserve the suffering in the first place) he is relieved because his *relationship* with God is restored. Job does not need specific answers anymore because he has the one thing he cared about the most: his connection with God.

Job is the proof that satan was wrong. Job didn't only obey God because of the benefits. Job wanted God because he wanted God. He wanted God for Himself - not the things he would get from it.

True statement. God did what God had to do to produce the realization in Job of what his latent Spiritual issues were.

So then pay attention to the text!!!! Who STARTED the ball rolling?? was it satan or God??? God's "Cause"/"Reason" was to make Job Aware of his issues, so that he (Job) could REPENT of them. and the process worked perfectly, as recorded at Job 42:6.

Job wound up understanding things that he'd been blind to, and was brought to repentance, as noted.

And THEN there was restoration greater than his previous situation.

The message to ME is the TRUTH of Romans 8:28,29. ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER FOR MY GOOD - and "My Good" is defined in V29 - to conform me to the image of Jesus.

It's been said that "if necessary, God will HURT YOU TERRIBLY, but He will never HARM you". everything He does has a redemptive purpose.

Hebrews 5:7-9
Thank you for the inspiration, Cameron! I hope you and yours are well .

God cursed jobs friend for talking wrongly about him. I wouldnt do if i were you.

It wasn't what they said, but what they didn't say that they were held accountable. When they repented God accepted all four of them.

God is your inspiration. This time He was gracious enough to include me.
We are always well, but thanks for your well-wishes. Hope all is well with you.

Totally agree, of course, that all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. And I would agree that is also the case in Job's life. Job does grow and develop and come to a whole new level of understanding at the end of this story. Yes. All of that is true.

However, I cannot agree with the premise you are laying out for this story. It seems you are committed to this idea that God had a *cause* to let Job suffer. (Again, I believe God used Job's suffering for good ultimately.) But what we read in the story is that God Himself acknowledges that letting Job suffer was *without cause*. These ideas are incompatible.

Also, how is someone full of pride and self-reliance also blameless? If Job is full of pride and self-reliance, why doesn't God say that at the beginning of the story?

So as far as you're concerned the whole thing was a "Contest" between God and satan, and job was nothing but a victim????

People alway assume God didnt favor Job. But job was favored what other person did God put so much trust in except his son jesus? He asked job to pray for his friend because he would not accept them if not for job.


"And it was so, that after the Lord had spoken these words unto Job, the Lord said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering(and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.)

BINGO!! Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you!! I love how you laid all of this out. I wholeheartedly agree with you that one of the purposes of the Book of Job is to reveal Jesus to us, specifically Jesus the suffering servant like in Isaiah 53. It is wonderful how you went on to explain how we don't necessarily see the deep emotions that Jesus must have been feeling during his Passion and otherwise. Job is a clear way for us to understand Jesus in a deeper way.

I have brought up the parallel a couple of times in this thread (albeit, I would like to do more). But some want to immediately correct the idea and say that Job is not Jesus. Of course, in fact, they are right - Job is not literally Jesus and nobody in their right mind would believe that. The point, however, is that Job's experience is a foreshadowing of Jesus Christ and what he would suffer. The big difference, of course, Jesus died from the suffering but Job did not die in his suffering.

One of the biggest parallels I see between Job and Jesus is the loss of connection with God. Job is repeatedly crying out, asking where God is in this ordeal and deeply wanting to connect with Him again. Even if Job is in the wrong, he does not care. He wants God to at least tell him that - but many times Job only experiences silence from God. This reminds me so much of when Jesus was on the Cross and He cries out to God, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" Job felt abandoned by God just like Jesus felt abandoned by God. Ultimately, we know God produces salvation in both instances.

Thank you again for what you wrote! I will fan that flame every time.

No, I would not frame it like that at all. Job was a very unique person, and his story is a very unique one. I don't think God was just randomly picking on Job and using him simply like some pawn. God knew Job's character intimately, and would not have allowed Job to suffer like this if he was going to fail, I believe. The rest of the story bears that out. Look at God bragging about Job when He says, "There is none like him in the earth..." (1:8).

You expressed that God uses satan as his tool to ultimately correct Job. I guess I would frame it instead that God uses His best servant, Job, to defeat satan and his satan's lie that Job's relationship with God is merely transactional.

No, Job is not a victim. He suffers undeservedly for this ordeal, but he ultimately benefits from it all. For starters, Job gets to see God with his own eyes! Amazing. He is also given double of everything he lost. I think Job also comes to a much deeper understanding of God and of his relationship with God. I think Job is given the "spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him [God]" like Paul prayed for the Ephesians in Ephesians 1:17.

Elihu.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I think understanding the character of Elihu is the key to understanding this story as a whole. From what I have seen here (and in other studies) is that opinions about Elihu typically fall into one of three categories. (I am totally open to other opinions, I'm just relaying what I have seen myself.)
1. Elihu presents a different argument than the three friends, but ultimately does not add anything helpful to the conversation.
2. Elihu is the key! He nails exactly what Job's problem is and has this whole ordeal all figured out. He is the wisest of the bunch, and could even be an angel, perhaps even a Messianic figure come to bring the ultimate revelation!
3. Elihu is a false prophet. A fake "christ", and nothing but an accuser of the brethren. (This is probably the least popular view.)

Before I present a question about Elihu (there are many), I think it may be helpful to notice his arrival in this story. We know he has been listening to Job and his friends argue, but the reader is not aware of him until chapter 32. It makes sense that at this point in the book the reader is worn out from all of the arguing. So when Elihu steps in and says something different, it is probably natural for the reader to feel some relief. They might think, "Finally! Something new!" As a result, the reader may be more open to what Elihu has to say (since the other arguments have been exhausted.)

For myself, I was on the fence about Elihu. I thought, no he's right. Then I thought, maybe he's wrong? I went back and forth, wrestling with this very enigmatic character. But it wasn't until I really looked at what he was saying that the lights went on. It became very clear for me, and once I chose a position, there was nothing but confirmation for me about his role in the story.

Long intro (sorry!) but thought it was needful to set up. So here is my first question regarding Elihu. It says explicitly four times that Elihu is angry or burning with anger. Mentioning this four times is a big deal. For those in support of Elihu my question is: when you read Elihu's words, are you factoring in how angry he is? And, have you ever been counseled by someone who is burning with anger? If so, how did it make you feel? Was their anger helpful to you? Did it help bring you closer to God?

Second question. In Job 34:4 Elihu says, "Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good." For the supporters of Elihu, does this sound right to you? Know among ourselves what is good? Job reaches outside of himself and prays to God for understanding, but Elihu is proposing choosing judgment on their own. Kinda sounds like Judges 21:25 where it says the people did what is right in their own eyes.

Thoughts?

So to you, it's still just a wager between God and satan, and Job's "profit" from it is merely incidental - God had no redemptive purpose in what He started.
Make no mistake - GOD STARTED the whole process, not satan, and every step along the way was under God's control.