Works and Salvation

i would not call hanging on a tree (the cross) figurative

Jesus literally hung on a tree 9the cross0 as payment for our sin debt

Wow...the cross wasn't figurative. That Jesus was compared to a curse is what is not literal. It's a metaphor. No one believes Jesus was an actual lamb. Neither was He an actual curse.

But he was cursed on our behalf. He was the lamb of God slain
the lamb was a metaphor of him

Sure, He was cursed, but He isn't or wasn't a curse.

It is good for you to evaluate whether what you think what a passage says makes sense and to sometimes come to the conclusion that you must have misunderstood it.

Does it make sense to interpret it as Paul denying the truth of the many other verses that say that relying on the Law of God is the way to be blessed while not obeying it is the way to be cursed?

Does it make sense to interpret it as Paul denying what he said in Romans 10:5-8 is the word of faith that we proclaim?

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, relying on the the Law of God is the way to be blessed while not relying on it is the way to be cursed, so does it make sense to interpret Paul as quoting from that passage in order to support a point that is arguing against what he was quoting from?

Does it make sense to interpret Paul was arguing against what he considered to be Scripture?

Does God want His instructions to be obeyed or disobeyed?

Does it make sense to think that God curses anyone who tries to obey His instructions and the way to avoid being cursed is by refusing to obey His instructions?

Does it make sense to interpret a servant of God as arguing against obeying His instructions, especially when Deuteronomy 13 says that those who do that are false prophets who are not speaking for God?

Does it make sense to think that we should rely on God, but not on His instructions?

Does it make sense to think that we should trust in God while considering Him to be a giver of untrustworthy instructions, especially when Psalms 19:7 says that God's instructions are trustworthy?

In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith and in Romans 3:31, he said that our faith upholds the Law of God in contrast with saying that "works of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to obedience to the Law of God. Rather, according to Deuteronomy 27-28, it is not relying on the Book of the Law that causes someone to come under its curse, which is why everyone who relies on works of the law instead comes under that curse. In Galatians 3:10, Paul said that cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything in the Book of the Law, so the only way that verse leaves open to avoid being cursed is by continuing to do everything in the Book of the Law.

In Deuteronomy 11:26-32, the difference between being under the blessing or the curse of God's law is not based whether we have perfect obedience, but on whether we choose to serve God or to chase after other gods. The Law of God came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required perfect obedience. If we needed to have perfect obedience, then we repenting after we had sinned would be of no value, so the fact that repentance has value again demonstrates that we don't need to have perfect obedience. If we needed perfect obedience in order to avoid coming under God's curse, then everyone in the OT would have been cursed, however, that does not reflect the reality of what is recorded about those who served God, just those who chased after other gods.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Law of God will live by it, so the righteous living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Law of God. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Law of God, and in 1 John 3:4-7, everything who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God is righteous even as they are righteous, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments.

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions, it is contradictory to think that God is trustworthy while also thinking that He is a giver of untrustworthy instructions, and to deny that the Law of God is of faith rather than works of the law is to deny the trustworthiness/faithfulness of the Lawgiver.

In Deuteronomy 27-28, it describes the blessing of the law and the curse of lawlessness, so Jesus setting us from from the cruse of the law is setting us from from lawlessness so that we can be free to enjoy the blessing of the law. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from the Law of God, but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doin good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Law of God is the way to believe that Jesus has redeem us from the cruse of the law (Acts 21:20).

Nowhere does the Bible say that, but rather it says the opposite. You are denying what Paul said is the word of faith that we proclaim.

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). God's word leads us to God's word made flesh, because it was given to teach us how to know him.

Everything in God's law was given to teach us how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

Those verses are commonly used to argue against obeying God's law, which is the position that we are free to do what it reveals to be sin, so that is not a straw man. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we believe that the Psalms are Scripture and therefore express a corrective view of obeying it, then we will share it as Paul did (Romans 7:22). If you believed that the Psalms are Scripture, then you would also promote it.

‘The law was given to show you you could not live up to Gods standard..’

This is exactly correct I stated above

You are free to think that that is correct, just recognize that it is your own made up doctrine that is not based on what is stated in the Bible and that the Bible in fact states the opposite.

### 1. **The Law Reveals Sin**
- **Romans 3:20 (NIV)**: _"Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."_
- The law shows us God's perfect standard, and in trying to live up to it, we become aware of our sinfulness. It reveals our inability to meet God’s perfect standard on our own.

### 2. **The Law as a "Schoolmaster" or Guardian**
- **Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)**: _"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."_
- The law served as a guide or tutor to lead people to Christ by showing them their need for salvation. It prepared the way for faith in Jesus, who fulfilled the law on our behalf.

### 3. **Christ Fulfilled the Law**
- **Matthew 5:17 (NIV)**: _"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."_
- Jesus perfectly obeyed the law, something no human could do, and through His death and resurrection, He provided a way for us to be made righteous by faith, not by works of the law.

### 4. **The Purpose of the Law Was to Lead Us to Grace**
- **Romans 8:3-4 (NIV)**: _"For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."_
- The law couldn’t save us because our sinful nature made it impossible to follow it perfectly. But through Christ’s sacrifice, the righteous requirement of the law was fulfilled, and we are made righteous through Him.

### 5. **The Law Points to Christ**
- **Galatians 2:16 (NIV)**: _"Know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified."_
- Salvation comes not by obeying the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, who accomplished what the law could not—perfect righteousness.

### Summary:
The law was given to show the holiness of God and to make people aware of their sinfulness. No one can perfectly fulfill the law, and that is why Christ’s coming was necessary. Jesus fulfilled the law by living a sinless life and offering Himself as the perfect sacrifice, making it possible for us to be saved by grace through faith.

This is why the law is often seen as a way to lead us to recognize our need for Jesus as Savior, rather than as a means of attaining righteousness on our own.

Would you like to explore more on how grace and the law work together?

Those verses do not say that there are eternal aspects of the Mosaic Covenant, but that it is eternal. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so I have been speaking about the way to live under the New Covenant and those who do not want to obey the Torah also do not want to come under the New Covenant. The same God who gave the Torah to Moses also sent Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to turn us form our wickedness in disobedience to it, so there is no disagreement. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so those who refuse to walk in obedience to the Torah should not consider themselves to be in Christ.

If you agree that God's law was given to reveal what sin is and that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey it. God's law not just given to reveal our sin, but was also given to teach us how to do what is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12). Even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their justification as the result (Romans 4:1-5), which is because God's law was never given as a means of earning our justification, so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of why we should obey it. Something that we do on our own does not involve relying on anywhere else, so it is contradictory to think that relying on God's instructions is something that we can do on our own.

Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. God's law brings us to Christ because it was given to teach us how to know him, but it does not bring us to Christ so that we can then reject everything he taught and go back to doing what it reveals to be sin. Nowhere does the Bible says that Jesus fulfilled the law on our behalf.

### 3. **Christ Fulfilled the Law**
- **Matthew 5:17 (NIV)**: _"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."_
- Jesus perfectly obeyed the law, something no human could do, and through His death and resurrection, He provided a way for us to be made righteous by faith, not by works of the law.[/quote]
"To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleeroo), so Jesus fulfilled the law by pending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it as it should be, moreover, it refers to something that countless people have done. In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ, so that is not a change.

In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. Even if someone aged to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their salvation as the result, so our obedience to God has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of His law is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation. While the only way to attain a character trait is through faith, to have a character trait means to become a doer of that trait, so to be made righteous means to be made to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law.

We do not earn our justification as the result of our obedience to God's law because it was never given as a means of doing that, but that doesn't mean that we aren't obligated to obey it for the purposes for which it was given. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

The only reason why someone would need to have perfect obedience to God's law is if they are going to give themselves to pay the penalty for the sins of the world, the rest of us can thankfully have our sins forgiven.

God's law does not just lead us to recognize our need for Jesus as Savior, but also teaches us the way that he is giving us his gift of salvation.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way, and in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest anyone should boast, becoming a doer of good works in obedience to God's law is nevertheless a central part of our salvation. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is the way that He is giving us His gift of salvation.

Actually it does.

Gal 3: 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

So in looking at this. If you just break one command, not even on purpose. but by accident, or stumbling, you are guilty of the whole law. Any chances of claiming you keep the law are shattered. In fact. that was the problem with the pharisees/ They claimed they kept the law. but they did not. No one did. Only one person ever did. and that man died as the lamb of God who took your curse on your behalf

No. Christ lives sinless so he could be our perfect sacrifice, if he stumbled in just one point he would be as guilty as we are

However I agree. He did show us how to live, He loved everyone with an unconditional love. but then again, He told us, 2 commands are all the law/. If you want to NOT break the law. then love..

But the love does not show you how to be good.. again, it shows you how evil you are.

lol.. My friend Jesus destroyed this thining in his sermon on the mount.

He said the law says this, BUT I TELL YOU THAT.

He said again, The law says this, BUT I TELL YOU THAT.

Because the law is basic. it does not show you every possible way of breaking a command, or does it show you how to keep the command, it just says if you do this, Your guilty (it exposes your sin)

Then Jesus went even further, He said if you want to get to me this way. Be ye perfect as your father in heaven is perfect.

I do not know about you. But I lost the ability to do this when I committed my first sin 50 some years ago. Any possibility of me being perfect is long gone..

I am perfected in Christ. It is his righteousness which saves me, My righteousness is as filthy rags

Stop looking to self. and look to God


You can;t obey Gods law. it requires perfection. if you even stumble in one point, your guilty of all

Again, stop looking to self and watering down Gods law thinking you are keeping it. be trained by it and look to christ. For only he can save you

lol. well as I just showed above, You are incorrect

Blasphemy to say Jesus was cursed he was not HE IS! HOLY!. He died willingly for our sins and paid that debt in full but we must not be ignorant of the law but must uphold it as best we can until he returns, it is not impossible to follow the Law difficult yes but not impossible, If we fail we are forgiven but must be of good will and repent, Repentance was Jesus primary message, repent from sin as defined by the Law given to us.

You Follow Paul and Forget Jesus.
Jesus is the ONLY way to eternal Life, not paul.

dude. You need to lighten up. Your calling the word of God blasphemy.

Gal 3 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

He took our sins on his body. and paid the debt we owe God. that's redemption. He became the curse for us.. He was the lamb of God slain..

Yes, He who knew no sin became sin for us..

The best you can is not good enough my friend. Perfection is required..

Stop watering down the law my friend. You evidently have not been trained by it or you would never make such a claim.

If your just looking to the law to see what sin is, You are seriously lacking as to what sin is.

I would suggest you study some more

Paul was taught personally by Jesus.

When you follow paul. You follow Jesus

[2Ti 3:16 KJV] 16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: