Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
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how this happens, I do not know, I do know this in Matthew 27
Matthew 27:52
Authorized (King James) Version
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And these risen went into the town there and preached
yet, this be the only verse mentioned by Matthew, the others do not have anything on that.
Yet I believe it did happen
I believe the Soul goes back to God as the body goes into the grave, separated, until the day for now. yet these Souls reentered those bodies on the resurrection of son then
And for those that say one remains dead and does not see after life. I say what about the transfiguration, the disciples seeing Moses and Elijah and Jesus in white,, Peter wanting to build shrines. Now they are not dead are they? The Spirit lives on and so ask God to reveal to you to keep you safe in God through Son as risen for you too, thank you
Matthew 27:52
Authorized (King James) Version
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And these risen went into the town there and preached
yet, this be the only verse mentioned by Matthew, the others do not have anything on that.
Yet I believe it did happen
I believe the Soul goes back to God as the body goes into the grave, separated, until the day for now. yet these Souls reentered those bodies on the resurrection of son then
And for those that say one remains dead and does not see after life. I say what about the transfiguration, the disciples seeing Moses and Elijah and Jesus in white,, Peter wanting to build shrines. Now they are not dead are they? The Spirit lives on and so ask God to reveal to you to keep you safe in God through Son as risen for you too, thank you
op: Question for Pre-Trib Rapture?
Yes, all of the righteous dead [ who are "asleep In Jesus" ] Will "God Bring With Him" for "resurrection from the dead" first, Before "we who are alive and remain Will Be Caught Up
together With them to meet The Lord in the air":
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Amen.
Yes, all of the righteous dead [ who are "asleep In Jesus" ] Will "God Bring With Him" for "resurrection from the dead" first, Before "we who are alive and remain Will Be Caught Up
together With them to meet The Lord in the air":
God's Great GRACE Departure!
Amen.
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Yes, for the body of Christ, the church. At the resurrection, the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. This catching up or seizing of the body of Christ is the rapture.
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Could you explain to what verse you are referring please?
I believe the resurrection happens in stages. First Christ, then those who belong to Him according to their own company, ie. Church, Israel, Millennial saints etc. (resurrection unto life) and then lastly those who He has nothing to do with (resurrection unto death).
1Cor.15:22-24
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
I believe the resurrection happens in stages. First Christ, then those who belong to Him according to their own company, ie. Church, Israel, Millennial saints etc. (resurrection unto life) and then lastly those who He has nothing to do with (resurrection unto death).
1Cor.15:22-24
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
I know what pre-tribulation is, I was asking to what verse you were referring in regards to who are the righteous dead? Are you simply referring to all believers or is their a particular verse you have in mind that references the "righteous dead".
If you are referring to all believers then I gave my answer in the last post.
If you are referring to all believers then I gave my answer in the last post.
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Thanks for correcting me on that. Appreciated
i personally think when one dies, anyone that be their judgement day between God and them personally. I think I understand when all ends here, for the new earth to begin with the new Heaven(s) (2 Cor 12:1-6)
we if not dead physically yet, as said we be caught up with all the others God chose instantly. I love the song by Norman Greenbaum “ Spirit in the sky”
‘the pre-trib< post trib, whatever trib, to me does not make sense
whether we live or die< matters not, we are the Lords ( Romans 14 )
‘I trust God to straighten God’s children out, I see to love all in God’s mercy and truth of Son. As well to become wise as a serpent not harming anyone seeing when to not open doors and when to open< by God’s lead, not mine. Still in process in thanksgiving and praise to God and even in the troubles I have been through, might go through and can go through. All for the glory of God in risen Son, thank you.
i personally think when one dies, anyone that be their judgement day between God and them personally. I think I understand when all ends here, for the new earth to begin with the new Heaven(s) (2 Cor 12:1-6)
we if not dead physically yet, as said we be caught up with all the others God chose instantly. I love the song by Norman Greenbaum “ Spirit in the sky”
‘the pre-trib< post trib, whatever trib, to me does not make sense
whether we live or die< matters not, we are the Lords ( Romans 14 )
‘I trust God to straighten God’s children out, I see to love all in God’s mercy and truth of Son. As well to become wise as a serpent not harming anyone seeing when to not open doors and when to open< by God’s lead, not mine. Still in process in thanksgiving and praise to God and even in the troubles I have been through, might go through and can go through. All for the glory of God in risen Son, thank you.
The rapture is indeed before the tribulation. If that were not true, then our salvation would be cast into the well of doubt and subjectivism; with our having to endure unto the end, as will be the case for those who pass over into the tribulation. We would have to become unsealed by Holy Spirit and unborn again if our salvation them becomes a matter of personal endurance as Jesus revealed in Matthew 24.
Now, granted, there are those who spiritualize all this to make it say what they want it to say, but that only is a mask over the clear language that happens to teach what they don't like. Most people want to to believe that they can somehow do some works that will impress the Lord, and thus supplement their salvation, which only casts doubts upon the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ. Spiritualizing all those sections of scripture that happen to not conform to personal interpretations and bias, they have no comparative basis upon which to root their subjectivism.
I don't know about them, but I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus right now, not at some future time. If they think they can earn that, then more power to them because they're going to need more than just faith in that to try and make it work in the eyes of the Lord.
MM
Now, granted, there are those who spiritualize all this to make it say what they want it to say, but that only is a mask over the clear language that happens to teach what they don't like. Most people want to to believe that they can somehow do some works that will impress the Lord, and thus supplement their salvation, which only casts doubts upon the sufficiency of the Blood of Christ. Spiritualizing all those sections of scripture that happen to not conform to personal interpretations and bias, they have no comparative basis upon which to root their subjectivism.
I don't know about them, but I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus right now, not at some future time. If they think they can earn that, then more power to them because they're going to need more than just faith in that to try and make it work in the eyes of the Lord.
MM
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1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
There's not much comfort in the idea that we will have to pass through any part of the tribulation, because a fourth of the entire world's population will be killed in just the first half, with another third of the remaining population, which will then be a full one half of the original population at the start, all wiped out through death in various forms.
Additionally, with us meeting Him in the air, not here on the surface of the earth, that too speaks loud volumes to the fact that His coming for us is not the second coming, which is the point at which His Feet touch down upon Mount Zion, His garment spattered with the blood of His enemies. The dead in Christ will rise first, and then the remainder who are alive. It is at that point that the Kingdom Gospel will once again become active, with one having to do works as the means by which they perfect their faith.
MM
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
There's not much comfort in the idea that we will have to pass through any part of the tribulation, because a fourth of the entire world's population will be killed in just the first half, with another third of the remaining population, which will then be a full one half of the original population at the start, all wiped out through death in various forms.
Additionally, with us meeting Him in the air, not here on the surface of the earth, that too speaks loud volumes to the fact that His coming for us is not the second coming, which is the point at which His Feet touch down upon Mount Zion, His garment spattered with the blood of His enemies. The dead in Christ will rise first, and then the remainder who are alive. It is at that point that the Kingdom Gospel will once again become active, with one having to do works as the means by which they perfect their faith.
MM
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At the second coming, this is what was stated by Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 37:11-14
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
This is the first resurrection, as is shown here:
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The etherealists, however, see that in an entirely different light than the clear language spoken, making it unrecognizable.
MM
Ezekiel 37:11-14
11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.
This is the first resurrection, as is shown here:
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The etherealists, however, see that in an entirely different light than the clear language spoken, making it unrecognizable.
MM
Not spiritualizing the rapture, I belong to the Lord, by the Lord. If I am left here, I am left here. To me it will be an honor to be here to help those other to become believers and not take that mark, that evil tries to give out to people by force to be able to buy and sell things.
There is the 144,000 reserved to help those in troubles, to not take the mark of the beast, to be willing to die and not take the mark, to actually willingly let it be done to them as it got done to Jesus by man. "The art of fighting without fighting" is the lesson received, that I see. It is in my Father's hand, right hand Jesus my Messiah
Yours too, God is amazingly past the flesh being alive,
There is the 144,000 reserved to help those in troubles, to not take the mark of the beast, to be willing to die and not take the mark, to actually willingly let it be done to them as it got done to Jesus by man. "The art of fighting without fighting" is the lesson received, that I see. It is in my Father's hand, right hand Jesus my Messiah
Yours too, God is amazingly past the flesh being alive,
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yes, as those chosen to be here, have food to eat that many do not know of. Fear is the greatest weapon of evil.
F-alse
E-vidence
A-ppearing
R-eal
And guilt, to get anyone under Law to try to do what no one else can do but Son that did it for us. So much more here in this world than what one sees physically.
F-alse
E-vidence
A-ppearing
R-eal
And guilt, to get anyone under Law to try to do what no one else can do but Son that did it for us. So much more here in this world than what one sees physically.
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From the perspective of the pre-tribulation belief, one's presence here after the beginning of the tribulation means that one is not saved beforehand, apart from being one of the 144,000. The antagonists out there who have nothing better to do than to spew their acid of doubts based upon misinterpretations and over-allegoricalizing tendencies, they too are free to remain if they so choose. Not me.
As an Israeli, and I know that I am not among that 144,000 given that I am sealed by Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption without my having to persevere. Being born again means that one is not ever going to become UNborn again. There are some who believe that's possible, which is akin to believing in Martians and Harry Potter as being real. If you're not sealed by Holy Spirit and therefore born again, then that's on you. To believe that the seal of Holy Spirit upon all true believers right now is being too weak to hold them without any weakness on the part of the Lord, that is a tragic viewpoint and utterly outside the bounds of scripture.
Also keep in mind that the martyrs from the tribulation period do not have crowns of reward upon their heads, but have only white robes and palm branches in hand, and thus have an entirely different destiny assigned to them...not that being in eternity in any capacity is going to be bad, but rewards will have far greater impact in eternity than to go there with no rewards because of one not having been in Christ before the rapture, and thus only believing after the Lord begins to pour out His wrath upon the earth and mankind. Why wait until then, and thus have no reward? NOW is the time to store up treasure in Heaven, because in the tribulation, no reward will be offered so far as can be seen within scripture.
MM
As an Israeli, and I know that I am not among that 144,000 given that I am sealed by Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption without my having to persevere. Being born again means that one is not ever going to become UNborn again. There are some who believe that's possible, which is akin to believing in Martians and Harry Potter as being real. If you're not sealed by Holy Spirit and therefore born again, then that's on you. To believe that the seal of Holy Spirit upon all true believers right now is being too weak to hold them without any weakness on the part of the Lord, that is a tragic viewpoint and utterly outside the bounds of scripture.
Also keep in mind that the martyrs from the tribulation period do not have crowns of reward upon their heads, but have only white robes and palm branches in hand, and thus have an entirely different destiny assigned to them...not that being in eternity in any capacity is going to be bad, but rewards will have far greater impact in eternity than to go there with no rewards because of one not having been in Christ before the rapture, and thus only believing after the Lord begins to pour out His wrath upon the earth and mankind. Why wait until then, and thus have no reward? NOW is the time to store up treasure in Heaven, because in the tribulation, no reward will be offered so far as can be seen within scripture.
MM
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Yes, ye tif called too be by God to be, I say let it be. I see it as an honor to be one of those 144,000 to get others to see and willingly die for God to be new in spirit and Truth
At least a toilet bowl scrubber in Heaven, I see as sufficient.
I saw a man held down and the people doing that were trying to get him to deny God, and take the mark. They had his wife and children placed in front of him, tied to a stake in an oil pit, that was burning. About to drop them in and burn to death, these flesh people said to him again, deny God and take the mark or we kill your wife and children here and now in front of you.
The person and all that are left in the Armageddon that have not yet taken the mark, still have the chance to willingly die themselves and be freed from this bondage of flesh here on earth under bondage of selfishness.
So, I watch and here the Husband say, Honey, Kids, I will see you on the other side, do not take the mark and be saved even in willing death okay?
Yo be here to prepare others here, is an honor to me to be here, as long as am called by God
Thanks and so elated over your being a first chosen person of God too
At least a toilet bowl scrubber in Heaven, I see as sufficient.
I saw a man held down and the people doing that were trying to get him to deny God, and take the mark. They had his wife and children placed in front of him, tied to a stake in an oil pit, that was burning. About to drop them in and burn to death, these flesh people said to him again, deny God and take the mark or we kill your wife and children here and now in front of you.
The person and all that are left in the Armageddon that have not yet taken the mark, still have the chance to willingly die themselves and be freed from this bondage of flesh here on earth under bondage of selfishness.
So, I watch and here the Husband say, Honey, Kids, I will see you on the other side, do not take the mark and be saved even in willing death okay?
Yo be here to prepare others here, is an honor to me to be here, as long as am called by God
Thanks and so elated over your being a first chosen person of God too