The First Date

What information should you disclose on the first date? And what should you disclose or discuss by the first three or so dates? Since we are living in modern times, the dates can can either be phone, video, or anywhere where long discussions take place.

What would you tell your spouse later on, once you find out this is the person you would marry? And, what would you prefer not to say or not delve into details (either later on or never)?

Possible topics include:
Children (if you have them or want them)
Income
Other financial matters/debt/investments
Theology
Prior marriages
Childhood trauma
Other trauma
Illness
STDs.
Roles in marriage
Elder care
Retirement
Where to live

Which date do you discuss vasectomy?

To be completely honest, at our age, when most people have all the kids they want or are at least considering not having anymore, that actually might be a valid talking point on a first date.

Well, maybe not ALL of them right away.

These are all excellent points @MsMediator, and I always enjoy your thought-provoking threads.

To be honest, I'm don't have any answers. I guess all I can say is that you have to kind of see how the conversation flows and go from there. And like you said, since many people meet online or supplement their communications electronically, many of these topics will likely come up in the normal flow of conversation along the way. (At least, with people who are fairly easy to talk to and/or connect well.)

For those with more reserved personalities, it might be harder to share/fetter out information at deeper levels, but I think it's really hard to tell nowadays what the line is between sharing personal information at a "normal" pace vs. downright oversharing, which I'm guessing most people don't like.

I've told this story often -- some missionary friends set me up on a blind date with a guy from the worship team at another church. We met at a restaurant for lunch, and up until then, had never seen or talked to one another.

On the very first date, he was saying that his ex-wife used to bribe him with sex (I have no idea how he got on that subject,) then looked at me and said, "And I wouldn't mind it at all if you tried bribing me." I was ready to leave the restaurant right there and then.

While I'm not the most streetwise, I'm certainly not a wallflower, but to me, that was just way too much, way too soon.

Maybe I should have given him a chance, but when he talked about going out a second time, I told him I wasn't interested, and I also pointed out his comment as being why.

Funny thing, even when I talked to one of the friends who set up the date, the first thing she said was, "Yes, he's always... had a problem in that area..." but didn't elaborate further.

Oh sure. Tell me AFTER the fact.

But I digress.

I'm actually used to people telling me very personal things about their lives, but not necessarily in a dating context where I'm thrown into the ring as a contender.

And I felt like in a way, he was already comparing me to his ex-wife (which is inevitable, but uncomfortable,) and at the time, I wasn't desperate enough to try to find someone that I could just pretend that I could put up with it.

What topics do you think should be left for much later in, such as closer to engagement/marriage?

well, I meant all of the former marriages... Most of these topics are for much further into a relationship with both see it becoming more than just dating. As for STDs... why are you dating at all if you have STDs?

Apparently because there's a sucker born every minute...

This is a valid topic I think.

Me?.. I'd probably swing for the fences and tell you my story within three dates. No sense in wasting either of our times because we are older and you may as well know now rather than later. 😀

You'd like to think that people, especially Christians, would feel enough moral responsibility to refrain, but no. I'll never forget a social event I attended in college and some friends told me about one of the attendees -- he had been diagnosed with HIV, and this was at a time when this was considered an automatic kiss of death.

My friends told me this guy was always going out to try to pick someone up -- and always preying on those who were new and didn't know about his situation. All he cared about, they said, was the next one. Maybe it was his way of coping.

Some people also might not know they have something, or may have picked something up due to abuse, and never went to the doctor or choose to be tested.

At the height of the AIDS crisis, I worked with a woman who said she was a Christian and whose family ran a local church, and she said never had plans to get tested for anything, because she didn't want to know.

I don't know if this is everywhere in the US, but I know in the places I've lived, certain STD's are so common that they just automatically test women for them when they do regular cancer screenings, etc. (Do they do this for men, too?)

At my last regular doctor's appointment, my doctor said, "I know you're good," and told me I could skip all the various tests for cancer and STD's this year. But being adopted and having no family history, I still all the cancer screenings insurance will pay for just to be sure. And as far as STD's go, even though I have no worries, I told her to run the full testing.

Why? So that I have updated, recent, clinically documented proof of my status if I were to somehow meet a potential marriage partner. And I would expect the same from him. And I would insist on us both going and getting tested again before marriage (some things can lie dormant for a while and can take months or years to show up on tests.)

If it's one thing I've learned in life, always have or be prepared to show outside, unbiased (if possible), official documentation -- and demand the same from others as well.

The day after I got married, I went to clean my then-husband's car and found some receipts... It turned out he had a large debt he had never told me about. When confronted (we dated for 3 years,) he said, "I kept trying to tell you..." But he never did. And I suppose that was an omen right then and there of how things were going to go.

I guess the best thing about him deciding to divorce me for someone else was that he took all his debt with him. From then on, his out of control spending was no longer my burden.

I wonder if he told his next wife before he married her. Either way, I hope she like debt, because as soon as it got paid down, he just opened more credit cards and racked it all up again.

Never. Again.

If there is ever a next time, I want solid, officially documented proof of everything someone tells me -- because I will offer the same without hesitation. And no, a note from his Mom and Grandma, no matter how sweet, isn't going to cut it.

I know much of the Christian community will holler at me about trust issues and so forth, but if it's one thing I've learned in life, it's to get official proof of absolutely everything from everyone whenever you can.

Well... I guess those are two things I don't have to worry one bit about.

From our own perspective, obviously, the sooner we receive as much information as possible, the better ... so we are not wasting our time. However, in order for me to give out personal information I would need to see some promise and have a high level of trust in the relationship before I give health, financial, or family details. In beginning I just want to know if we are compatible, his temperament/personality, if we enjoy eachother's company, etc. He will have to meet some prerequisites such as he has a job, etc.

I don't expect I'll ever date, but if I do, I'll want to keep the first date just on general getting to know you or maybe start out on a good foot and why each of us wanted to be on a date with the other. Second date is probably time to normalize financial expectations and other aspects of what the boundaries are for continued dating (if he thinks he's getting me into bed after the 3rd date he better know now that that's not gonna happen, etc). Third date, knowing me I'm gonna start making a checklist of all the things we have to figure out between here and being a functioning long term couple. And yeah that make a checklist type of personality and then work on the tasks just seems to be so unromantic that dating isn't for me.

One thing I wish I had done while single is do one of those speed dating encounters. I don't know if it would have worked out, but if I couldn't make someone feel relaxed and laugh a couple of times in 5 minutes, then I know that person isn't right for me.
So if I'm ever single again, just know, all of you people who haven't given me funny emoji responses are already off my list.

It sounds like you never found out how his second marriage turned out? Because I really would have loved to find out what the second wife thought about his debt.

I also don't think you have trust issues. These are the last days after all and everything will get worse. So it is only prudent to be on your guard even around people who say they're Christian.


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The last time I ever talked to him was when he was wanted me to leave something out from the shed that I later found out belonged to his girlfriend.

The last time I saw him was at our court date, where he told the judge he couldn't talk to me anymore and wanted out of the marriage. It felt like being thrown away, and was a double sword for someone also abandoned by her birth parents.

I never had any contact with him since then. Years ago, someone on Facebook told me he got remarried.

I went digging for info about his new life and it looked extremely successful. He had a wife and kids. Wrote a book like he always wanted, as I saw pictures of the finished product. Went to live in his dream location.

Opened a business like he'd always wanted, and I saw the pictures of his name on the building and the business website.

I quit Facebook, cut any old ties I didn't need to keep that knew him, and never went looking for anything about him again. I felt like that was God telling me this was my closure, albeit extremely painful, and to close all the doors.

I always say, if my ex were here on the forum and no one knew his past connection to me, he'd most likely be very well-liked. And he's obviously of professional writing caliber so I have no doubt he could write better and more meaningful threads than I can.

One of the reasons I fell for him was because he was such a deep thinker, but with a fabulously sharp sense of humor.

I don't know anything about what happened after that or what went on below the surface. I have no doubt our problems held him back and he wouldn't have been able to achieve so much if we'd stayed together.

And it stung something awful to see God bless him so abundantly. My life in comparison has been meager and quiet.

But it was another important lesson.

It's one thing to pray God's will be done, and to try to bless those who cause you harm.

It's another thing entirely to accept God's actual blessings on them when it happens, and is something I still struggle with when I really think about it.

I wouldn't say she has trust issues. She'd never seen me before she came through on a road trip, but she tossed her suitcase in the minivan and blithely hopped in.

I dunno... It depends on what your goals are. One man's blessing can be another man's white elephant. If I had his life, or what you know of what his life became, I'd hate it. Lotta pressure there. Did God really bless him?

I mean sure, from what you saw he seems to have the metrics we use to gauge success. But I'd be real unhappy with that kind of life.

Is he a Christian? What is the book he wrote? I want to look it up. I'm curious about what type of things he would write about. I'd be shocked if he wrote about being sensitive and caring.

Also, what you saw in his social media could just be a façade?

Do you know any info about your parents? If they're from North Korea, they might have given you up so that you'll have a better life in the US with American parents? Also in the 80's South Korea was still poor and maybe if your parents were South Korean, that could be why they gave you up so that, again, you'll have a better life in the US.

I'm just saying that most parents don't reject their child outright - most of the time it's because they feel that can't take care of the baby and will give the baby up to, hopefully, better parents. Also, if you really were rejected outright, your parents could have aborted you, or keep you and be horrible and/or neglectful parents to you.

Also, it sounds like your adoptive parents are really good to you. What's nice about adoptive parents is because with biological parents, neither side has much choice to love each other - it's just something you must or should do. But your parents CHOSE you, and that's pretty awesome.


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Yeah... I don't think I seem to have trust issues, but now craziness issues, that's a whole 'nother story!


I completely understand what you're saying. One of the reasons you and I are friends is because we think a lot alike. Neither one of us wants to be an official leader, because of all the headaches that come with it. But people try to put us in those positions because they see that we show up, do the work, and are responsible.

But not everyone is built like us. God makes all kinds of people, and some people seek out, and thrive on all kinds of new challenges. For whatever reason, God always seems to place me smack-dab in the middle of Type A personalities who want to do everything all at once. It was a real source of conflict when I was younger and didn't know who I was, because, not knowing I was different, the people around me wanted me to be like them -- and I thought that's who I had to be. I'm not a leader, but I'm at my best when working as hard as I can for someone who IS designed to be a good leader.

I have several friends and family members who thrive on meeting lofty goals, always setting the next one, and always striving to do something more challenging than the last thing they accomplished. They actually seem to get depressed and fade away if they don't have a little bit of chaos to go after. My ex was like that. Highly intelligent, goal-oriented, and an extremely hard worker. I have no doubt the things he accomplished were blessings. I'm sure they came with high levels of stress and calamity, but he was built for that kind of environment. He was gifted at choosing to remain calm, no matter how chaotic things got.

The thing is, when he got remarried, I think he was able to start over with a a crucial difference -- I think maybe this time, he had a wife who was supporting his goals instead of trying to chase her own because that's what she thought she had to do to find her own identity. When we go through major life events, we always look back at the things we did wrong and wish we could have changed. I regret that i didn't spend more time supporting him instead of chasing my own degrees and trying to be the Type A personality I now know I'm not.

So yes, I do think God blessed him. After all, God forgives our sins, helps us through the consequences, and leads us on.

As much as we believers always want to think God is always our side and will surely smite anyone who hurts us, we have to remember that the other person is still someone God cares very much about, too.

I honestly felt like me finding out all these things my ex accomplished -- with someone else by his side -- was a big wakeup call from God about what I had done wrong, and what I was really called to do.

And he did give me a second chance, thought not through marriage, but through a friendship. I have a close friend (we've always been just friends) who had a very hard life. I met him when he was facing one of his biggest challenges, and I tried to be the supportive person I failed to be in the past. I made many, probably all of the same mistakes all over again. But God gave me grace, and the blessing of seeing how much of a difference a little bit of encouragement makes.

Some time after my friend had started and was experiencing success with his own business, I flew across the country to see what he was up to. He drove me across the state to meet the people who had helped him establish everything he'd done. I got to see where they worked, the organizations they ran to help others, and shake their hands. And my friend was so gracious in telling all of them right in front of me, "This is my friend, Seoul. She's been with me through it all, and I couldn't have done it without her."

One of the biggest blessings God ever gave me was a redemption arc, and it was through the most unlikely of circumstances, and through a connection only God could have made.

Hi Second,

My ex actually was a very sensitive and caring person in certain situations. He'd been through a lot, and had a lot of empathy for people who'd been through similar things. I would never give out his name or information for the sake of his privacy. I didn't write down the title of the book, because I didn't want to remember, lest I be tempted to look up anything more about him. As I wrote earlier, I feel God said to let him go and close the door.

I doubt any of the info was faked. This was in the early days of the internet, when things were more genuine. His business actually had a contact email and, even though we never had contact for years, I sent a short email, apologizing for the past and saying I was happy for where he was now. I never got a reply, which I'm sure is for the best. Maybe the message never went through, but God scolded me through a friend and said, "Let the past go and move on."

I was at one of the worst stages of depression in my life when I was with him. I sometimes talked about ending my life. He tried very hard to help for a long time, but I wasn't very receptive to many of his efforts. Eventually, he couldn't handle it anymore, and began to shut down and withdraw.

As for my adoption -- I have never heard of a North Korean orphan being adopted but I could be wrong. From the little I know, anyone trying to leave North Korea would be immediately shot, but again, I could be wrong.

So I am from the South. The story goes that I was found in a cardboard box at a few days old, then taken to the police, then to an orphanage. People have often said, "Moses was found in a basket, and you were found in a box!" The thing is, as an adult, I've read about other adoptees my age having the exact same story... Which COULD very well be true -- maybe mothers at the time were all dumping unwanted kids the same way -- but, I've also read that in some cases, it was a pretty story social workers at that time were taught to relay to prospective adoptive parents.

So there are no records and I have nothing go to on. To tell you the truth, I no longer want to know, and if they ever wished to find me, they'd have to come looking for me. When I was younger, not knowing anything about my background tore me apart, especially growing up in a small white town where I was regarded as an alien or curiosity, but over many years, God has given me peace (and with the help of many caring people along the way.)

I appreciate what I know you are saying as a way to comfort my concerns, and thank you for that. I have no doubt that my life with my adoptive parents was God's plan. But nothing, nor any reason, erases the pain of knowing someone "gave you up," "left you," or that you were literally "unwanted," and "abandoned." I've met other adoptees who DID find their birth parents and it closed some gaps, but not all, and there is always that feeling of, "You left me when I was at my most vulnerable and needed you most."

This is exacerbated when you hear stories of other parents who have literally walked through hell to hold on to their children, even though it's not the right choice for all parents. Something in your mind, heart, and deep in your soul, can't get over the thought of being "left behind."

I have also heard it said many, many times over that with adoption, your parents CHOSE you, which isn't exactly true. Adoptive parents purposely choose to add a child to their family, just like a birth couple who purposely tries to get pregnant. But like a pregnancy, God makes the final choice of whom the parents get. I understand that some people get pregnant by "mistake," and don't want the baby. But my parents also would have said "yes" to any baby picture the adoption agency sent -- it just so happened (all orchestrated by God, of course,) that the first picture sent to them was mine. They weren't waiting specifically for me, nor would they have particularly waited for my picture -- but of course, I do believe God influenced their decision to say "yes" when they saw it.

Adoption can be a wonderful and noble thing, and I do wish it was an option for more families (it's become impossibly expensive,) but unfortunately, everything can have a dark side, too. I've spoken to many adoptees who got a raw deal. Some had to hide the fact that they were adopted, because their parents didn't want anyone to know (yes, this would usually require starting over in a new place.)

Some were adopted to fulfill dreams and parental goals they would never meet. I once talked to a guy here on CC whose parents had something like 6 daughters, so he was adopted out of their desperation to have a boy. When he failed to meet their expectations (which were always changing,) he was written off as a disappointment and failed experiment. It's no wonder he went a little crazy and rebelled.

I'm very fortunate in that my adoptive parents are the greatest blessing of my life, which is why I've dedicated a good portion of my single time in trying to make sure they are loved and hopefully secure as they get older.

But as wonderful as our biggest blessings are, there are still many pains in this life they don't make up for or erase, which is why I suppose God made it so that we look forward to heaven.