This came to my attention recently -----is it Faith IN Jesus or Faith OF Jesus

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studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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Nov 12, 2021
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Dino246 said:
Applying your reasoning, it is our belief in Christ, and not "the faith of Christ", that results in justification.
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Ephesianas 2:16---from this Bible says this ----

Berean Literal Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by works of law, except through faith from Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith from Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law not any flesh will be justified.

So is this translation wrong ---and the others are right -------????????????

And how can we prove which Scripture is right and which one is wrong ----???????
 
Dino246

Dino246

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studentoftheword said:
Ephesianas 2:16---from this Bible says this ----

Berean Literal Bible
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by works of law, except through faith from Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith from Christ, and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law not any flesh will be justified.

So is this translation wrong ---and the others are right -------????????????

And how can we prove which Scripture is right and which one is wrong ----???????
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This translation resolves the whole debate... thanks for posting it.

Now... that doesn't mean it is actually the best translation (determining that would require a great deal more study) but it does remove the conflict over whose faith saves. Faith is a gift from the Lord (Ephesians 2:8) yet Jesus and the apostles speak consistently of "your faith". My conclusion (at this point in my journey) is that God gives us the gift, we apply it, and both are necessary.
 
A

Adino

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Genez said:
Initially.. We were saved by faith in Jesus Christ....
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In correct.

We are saved through faith in Christ. Scripture never states, "Saved by faith." What scripture does state is "saved through faith," and "justified by faith." We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2).
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

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Nehemiah6 said:
Of course it is our faith in Christ and His perfect finished work on the cross, as well as His glorious resurrection. Jesus Himself said "He that believeth in me..."

It is not the faith "of Christ" for the simple reason that there is no need for Christ to have faith in Himself. So how does a person arrive at saving faith? "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (Rom 10:17). The Word of God here is actually the Gospel. See 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. To believe the Gospel is to believe on Christ and what He has done. And all should hear the Gospel, and all should repent and obey the Gospel.
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At least learn new, for me it is being willing where the new learning began in me, not that I know, God does though. I believe God, in risen Son for me personally, and have been willing to go through whatever I have gone through and might go through, even death daily. Yet that is of no account to me, to be willing to God to reach me, has Thank you in God Psalm 100:4, 103:12
John 18:30. Matthew 5:17, Hebrews 7:11-12, Hebrews10:10, John 1:29. 1 John 4:19
 
homwardbound

homwardbound

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Adino said:
How is that relevant to what I posted?​
​
??? So we're discussing your personal opinion of a logical necessity? The choice offered in the op's inquiry is an either/or choice - one or the other only - when the the scriptural and logical response should be "The two are not mutually exclusive of one another and the question is, therefore, a false dichotomy."​

​
I find the Robin Smit article flawed but don't want to digress from the opto discuss Smit (especially since Smit is not here to advocate or defend her article). The question of "Is it faith in Christ or faith of Christ?" can be answered without an appeal to the Law. This is particularly germane, and particularly odd, because the Smit article is supposed to be an article pertaining to hermeneutics but it is very bad exegesis to take one verse and think it speaks definitively on a given subject. The Bible has a lot to say about "faith in..." and "faith of..." Simply put, Galatians 2:16 should never have been proof-texted. Everything built on that flaw is, likewise, flawed. The appeal to the Greek was wise but, given the diversity found in our English translations it proves inconclusive and, therefore, a bit of a red herring. The next best would be to examine other similar scriptures NOT a sudden leap from Galatians 2 to Ephesians 4..... especially since Galatians 2 is written about justification and Ephesians 4 is not. No sound hermeneutic asserts or approves of that kind of incorrect exegesis.​

​
What is "it"?​
​
The faith found in Galatians 2:16 is simply and solely couched in justification. Nothing else. Nothing more. Christians screw this up quite often. Even notable teachers in our faith (no pun intended ;)). Paul's (and James') writings about the Law (mostly) pertain to the Law as a means of achieving righteousness and justification. It is a premise Paul soundly rejects and rejects unequivocally. The rejection, however, is not a rejection of the Law (or Tanakh) as a whole. Paul (and James), soundly rejecting the Law as a means of obtaining righteousness and justification..... nonetheless repeatedly quoted, referenced, and applied the Law to both Jewish and Gentile converts to Christ. ALL of the NT writers did so. Galatians 2:16 applies to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul couched verse 16 in his admonition of Peter's hypocrisy and need for correction. Gentiles also know they are not justified by the Law, the also know they are justified through faith in/of Christ. It's not a Jew-only thing.​
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So.... 1) Smits erred, 2) it is a mistake to over-generalize Galatians 2:16 beyond its stated context(s), and 3) wantonly copy-and-paste disparate scriptures together as if they are all written about the exact same matter in the exact same context.​
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It's also unnecessary because my original point is simple and true: The question the opening post asks is built on a false dichotomy. Faith in Christ cannot be different than the faith of Christ. Can we imagine God gifts a faith to His adopted sons and daughters that is different than His incarnate Son? If that is what is being suggested in this op, or in Post 21 then that requires a justifying explanation. Otherwise, the faith in Christ is one consistent with the faith of Christ.​
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"Take the short cut" believe, receive and see
Words are semantics to any subject, where one can say
"I have Faith in the risen Christ"
"I have Faith of the risen Christ"

And bottom line no matter what I or you or anyone else does, matters not, God knows wgho are God's and who are not. Along with who will choose to believe or not in the risen Son or of the risen Son.
As I said that in the beginning of the poet written it matters not "of or in"
thank you for your reaction in explaining from your perspective
I take it You Believe God raised Son from the dead to give new life to the people that choose to believe he is risen for them to see new in God Father's Spirit and Truth too?
 
Genez

Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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Adino said:
In correct.

We are saved through faith in Christ. Scripture never states, "Saved by faith." What scripture does state is "saved through faith," and "justified by faith." We are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2).
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What is saving faith?
It's Romans 10:17.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." ​
​

Faith in the everyday sense can simply mean "trusting in something."
Yet, in Christianity, it's specific, and means trusting in what the Word of God says.


Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” ​
​
Luke 7:50​

Yes.... we are initially saved through faith in Christ. By grace.

:coffee: :)
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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Dino246 said:
Now... that doesn't mean it is actually the best translation (determining that would require a great deal more study)
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How can you say that it may not be the best translation ----just maybe the Faith In Christ is not the best translation ????????---

I say -----We are all just Spinning our own thoughts on this issue -----

and I agree with what you say here ----
determining that would require a great deal more study)[/QUOTE]
 
studentoftheword

studentoftheword

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Found this ---thought I would share it

https://bereanbiblesociety.org/the-faith-of-jesus-christ/#:~:text=But remember, “the faith of,7:25).

The Faith Of Jesus Christ
by Pastor Cornelius R. Stam

“…the righteousness of God… by [the] faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe” (Rom. 3:22).​
Note, the Apostle Paul here does not refer to faith in Christ, but the faith of Christ. Nor does he refer to what Christ believed, but rather to His worthiness to be believed, His fidelity, His trustworthiness.

We must not forget that faith is a reciprocal matter; it is two-sided. One side is objective; it believes in another. The other is subjective; it is a trustworthy character. One refers to what a person does; the other to what he is. If I have faith in you, you should keep faith with me; you should be trustworthy.

Seven times in St. Paul’s epistles he refers to “the faith of Christ” and each time his purpose is to emphasize our Lord’s worthiness of our complete confidence. That he does not refer to our faith in Christ is evident on the surface in each case. In the passage above he declares that the righteousness of God, which is “by the faith of Christ,” is conferred “upon all them that believe” (Here’s your faith in Him).

Similarly, in Gal. 3:22 he states that “the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise, by faith of Jesus Christ, might be given to “them that believe.” Here again, we believe because He is worthy of our confidence.

Again in Phil. 3:9, the Apostle expresses his desire for a righteousness not of his own, “but that which is through the faith of Christ” — and then adds: “the righteousness which is of God by faith.” Here’s man’s faith again! He has faith in Christ because Christ is completely faithful, completely worthy to be believed in. He paid the full penalty for our sins and is now in heaven dispensing the merits of Calvary — riches of grace, mercy and forgiveness.

But remember, “the faith of Christ” always precedes our faith in Christ. What good would it do us to believe in Him for salvation if He were not wholly to be relied upon for this? But He can be trusted “to save… to the uttermost [all] who come unto God by Him” (Heb. 7:25). This is why Paul could say to the terrified jailor at Philippi:

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31).​
 
Dino246

Dino246

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studentoftheword said:
How can you say that it may not be the best translation ----just maybe the Faith In Christ is not the best translation ????????---

I say -----We are all just Spinning our own thoughts on this issue -----

and I agree with what you say here ----
determining that would require a great deal more study)
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[/QUOTE]
I’m trying to avoid being argumentative. ;)
 
S

Soyeong

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Oct 11, 2023
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studentoftheword said:
Faith In -- or Faith Of

This seems important to understand ------this changes the perspective on Faith ------



Most Translations say ---Faith In Jesus Christ


took this from Bible hub ---you can check it out for yourselves ---

https://biblehub.com/galatians/2-16.htm

Galatians 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.​
​
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”​
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yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.​

Only a few translations say Faith OF JESUS Christ ------

King James Bible
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because we know that a man is not justified by works of The Written Law, but by the faith of Yeshua The Messiah, we also believe in Yeshua The Messiah, that we should be made right by the faith of The Messiah, and not by the works of The Written Law, because no one is made right by the works of The Written Law.


Douay-Rheims Bible
But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Young's Literal Translation
having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'


So which is it -----is it our faith in Christ -that we strive to obtain --or is it the Faith of Christ that we possess by His Grace and not of any works by us ----

Could some of the translators ---translated this wrongly from the Greek

---it will change the faith role ----if it is Faith OF Jesus ---------it is His Faith we have in us ---it is not our Faith that we work to get

I say ----
If we think that we are suppose to have faith in Jesus ----we are always striving ---working--- to have more Faith ----we say I don't have enough faith yet for this or that ----when it is not about our Faith in Jesus --it is about Jesus Faith that is already there for us to access -----​
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Mark 4 ---Jesus is asleep when the storm comes and He says -----​
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“Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?”​
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The Greek word for Have is echō (----to have, i.e. to hold​
  1. to have (hold) in the hand -----to have i.e. own, posses
They already possessed His Faith they just didn't know it ------they didn't have to work for the Faith ---they possessed already ----faith is a free Gift from God ----we can't work to get God's faith ----and so many are striving to get enough faith --​



Interesting Read all --I just posted this section

The phrase is consistently rendered in English translations as “faith in Jesus Christ.” The Greek, however, says, “Pistis Iesou Christou,” which means the faith of Jesus Christ or Jesus Christ’s faith.​
Both of the nouns, faith and Jesus Christ, are genitive possessive. Remember, genitive possession denotes ownership, meaning Jesus owns the faith. ​
But translating it as “in” makes it sound like we need to put OUR faith IN Jesus, and we miss the importance of understanding that the faith belongs to Jesus — it is His! ​
​
Romans 3:22 is an important verse to correctly understand how God’s righteousness comes to us.​
Is it by Jesus’ faith or putting our faith in Jesus that we are made righteous?​
The NLT (New Living Translation) says, “We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ.” The ESV (English Standard Version) says, “The righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.” And the CEV (Contemporary English Version) says, “He (God) accepts people only because they have faith in Jesus Christ.” That’s only three translations, but MOST translations say something similar. I found only a few that say faith OF Jesus Christ, the KJV, Douay-Rheims Bible, Darby Bible Translation, and Young’s Literal Translation.​
Why is an understanding of the words OF or IN critical?​

Why is an understanding of the words OF or IN critical?

Because the faith OF Jesus Christ says that it’s a free gift, a FINISHED work!

But faith IN Jesus Christ makes it something we need to do to become righteous or that God ONLY accepts people BECAUSE of their faith in Jesus. And that’s just not true. That makes it about OUR works, instead of His FINISHED works.


Here is an another article on this

https://rtkendallministries.com/the-faith-of-christ
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The way that we choose to live expresses what we believe to be true about who God is, or in other words, the way to believe God is by believing that we ought to be in His image by being a doer of His character traits. For example, being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law testifies about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him, and by testifying about God's goodness were are expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him, and the same is true of God's other character traits. The way to believe that God is just is by being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. This exactly the same way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's character (Hebrews 1:3), so the faith of Jesus is in the character of God and faith in Jesus is in the character of God, which means that it has the same content either way.
 
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