Loss of salvation???

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Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
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Scripture simply plainly states Adam was not deceived.

He ate also, not because he was deceived, but sinning willfully.
For what it's worth...

One pastor whom I learn from, who teaches from the Hebrew, explained how Adam took and vigorously ate the fruit.
That he was munching it down.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,885
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Philippians 2:6-8 might be better understood exegeted with Greek tenses revealed as the following.



6~~Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
He did not think equalities {plural} with God a gain to be seized {means to violently take}
and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.
7~~But He Himself {Christ} deprived Himself of the proper function of deity
when He had received the 'inner essence'/form of a servant/slave
although He had been born in the outward likeness/image of mankind.
8~~In fact, although having been discovered in outward appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of {spiritual} death . . .
that is, the death of the cross.
Yea what I was saying is this is jesus before he was born n the flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is Jesus when he was born in the flesh

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,427
448
83
God created both Adam and Eve on day six.
Simply not aware of good and evil, as that serpent used to get both interested in eating from that tree, told not to eat from otherwise would die and all flesh has died one day since then. God sent Son to save us, not our flesh per say, our Souls
Wow, I see Isaiah 6:1-7 again. a person of unclean lips the Holy fire has touched these lips too, thank you Father and Son you Won (One)
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
83
Yea what I was saying is this is jesus before he was born n the flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is Jesus when he was born in the flesh

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭

To save us, God had to provide a perfect substitute to die in our place.
That substitute had to be a man. A sinless man to die for all men..

A man having a sinless human body to soak up all the sins of the world poured on it to be put to death, taking our sins with him in his death.

In effect... Jesus stole away our sins, and refused to give them back!

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,
“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29​
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
903
184
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Australia
God created both Adam and Eve on day six.
Yes but she wasn't alive in space and time until the Lord built her body from Adam's rib. We have no idea how long Adam was in the Garden before that occurred.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,723
13,521
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To save us, God had to provide a perfect substitute to die in our place.
That substitute had to be a man. A sinless man to die for all men..

A man having a sinless human body to soak up all the sins of the world poured on it to be put to death, taking our sins with him in his death.

In effect... Jesus stole away our sins, and refused to give them back!

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,
“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29​
if He is not God He cannot take away sin, not can He bear all the sin of the world.

God does not accept human sacrifice on His altar, it is an abomination.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,723
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Wherefore Christ Jesus, the Son of God, is both God and man; God before all worlds; man in our world: God, because the Word of God (for "the Word was God"); and man, because in His one person the Word was joined with a body and a rational soul. Wherefore, so far as He is God, He and the Father are one; so far as He is man, the Father is greater than He. For when He was the only Son of God, not by grace, but by nature, that He might be also full of grace, He became the Son of man; and He Himself unites both natures in His own identity, and both natures constitute one Christ; because, "being in the form of God, He thought it not robbery to be," what He was by nature, "equal with God." But He made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, not losing or lessening the form of God. And, accordingly, He was both made less and remained equal, being both in one, as has been said: but He was one of these as Word, and the other as man. As Word, He is equal with the Father; as man, less than the Father. One Son of God, and at the same time Son of man; one Son of man, and at the same time Son of God; not two Sons of God, God and man, but one Son of God: God without beginning; man with a beginning, our Lord Jesus Christ.

- Augustine, from Enchirodon, AD 420​
 

sawdust

Active member
Feb 12, 2024
903
184
43
67
Australia
Wherefore Christ Jesus, the Son of God, is both God and man; God before all worlds; man in our world: God, because the Word of God (for "the Word was God"); and man, because in His one person the Word was joined with a body and a rational soul. Wherefore, so far as He is God, He and the Father are one; so far as He is man, the Father is greater than He. For when He was the only Son of God, not by grace, but by nature, that He might be also full of grace, He became the Son of man; and He Himself unites both natures in His own identity, and both natures constitute one Christ; because, "being in the form of God, He thought it not robbery to be," what He was by nature, "equal with God." But He made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Himself the form of a servant, not losing or lessening the form of God. And, accordingly, He was both made less and remained equal, being both in one, as has been said: but He was one of these as Word, and the other as man. As Word, He is equal with the Father; as man, less than the Father. One Son of God, and at the same time Son of man; one Son of man, and at the same time Son of God; not two Sons of God, God and man, but one Son of God: God without beginning; man with a beginning, our Lord Jesus Christ.

- Augustine, from Enchirodon, AD 420​
Why do you constantly assume, because His humanity died on the Cross, you think we are saying He is not God? God cannot die, He is immortal.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Why do you constantly assume, because His humanity died on the Cross, you think we are saying He is not God? God cannot die, He is immortal.
why do you assume my pointing out that only because of His deity does the cross have any value is an assumption that someone is denying that deity?


millions of people have died falsely accused.
what makes this death any more significant than anyone else?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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amen

Hebrews 7:15-16​
And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Eve was naïve and dumb.
Adam understood.

Can we say that? ;)
  • her name isn't Eve until later.
  • she is definitely not stupid.
  • she recognized immediately she had been deceived and Satan is cursed based on her testimony.
    • on the other hand how long does it take you to figure it out?
    • hence i estimate she is smarter than everyone here.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
83
Yea what I was saying is this is jesus before he was born n the flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is Jesus when he was born in the flesh

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21, 23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭
Why does it say? Everything created was created THROUGH Him.

Why?.....
Jesus by means of His soul, was God's means to make sure that everything that was created?
Would be created in a manner that men (who are souls) would be able to relate to what was created.
That is why without Him nothing was created!

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." John 1:3​
grace and peace ..............
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,723
13,521
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Simply not aware of good and evil, as that serpent used to get both interested in eating from that tree, told not to eat from otherwise would die and all flesh has died one day since then. God sent Son to save us, not our flesh per say, our Souls
Adam was not deceived.

if they had no concept of good or evil they had no basis to obey or believe God.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
83
Yes but she wasn't alive in space and time until the Lord built her body from Adam's rib. We have no idea how long Adam was in the Garden before that occurred.
The Lord 'built' her body from Adam's rib like He took a few loaves and fish, and with them produced enough to feed thousands.

And, when the Lord was done with Adam's rib?

Adam thought she was a tasty dish! ;).....
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
83
Adam was not deceived.

if they had no concept of good or evil they had no basis to obey or believe God.
The basis was obedience out of love, not law.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
2,759
403
83
  • her name isn't Eve until later.
  • she is definitely not stupid.
  • she recognized immediately she had been deceived and Satan is cursed based on her testimony.
    • on the other hand how long does it take you to figure it out?
    • hence i estimate she is smarter than everyone here.
I was trying to jest.

Eve would have understood. ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,723
13,521
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God sent Son to save us, not our flesh per say, our Souls
if He does not save our flesh there is no resurrection and we are the most miserable of people, with no hope.

Romans 8:11​
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.