Loss of salvation???

Do you see any lesson here ?

“For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:14-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sin is because of unbelief of what he said israel provoked his anger because they rejected what he said in the covenant and changed and altered his covenant making it something it wasn’t

Like Christian’s have also done look at how the word needs to be Gods words and when we don’t do that and start altering his doctrines what happens this is how belief works brother you have to hear what God says or you could never believe what he said if we believe things he didn’t say it works against us like Israel’s folly

“Concerning the prophets: My heart is broken within me; all my bones tremble. I am like a drunken man, like a strong man overcome by wine, because of the Lord and his holy words. “Both prophet and priest are godless; even in my temple I find their wickedness,” declares the Lord. “Among the prophets of Samaria I saw this repulsive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led my people Israel astray. And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that not one of them turns from their wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah.” Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty says concerning the prophets: “I will make them eat bitter food and drink poisoned water, because from the prophets of Jerusalem ungodliness has spread throughout the land.” This is what the Lord Almighty says: “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you; they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. They keep saying to those who despise me, ‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’ And to all who follow the stubbornness of their hearts they say, ‘No harm will come to you.’ But which of them has stood in the council of the Lord to see or to hear his word? Who has listened and heard his word? The anger of the Lord will not turn back until he fully accomplishes the purposes of his heart. In days to come you will understand it clearly. I did not send these prophets, yet they have run with their message; I did not speak to them, yet they have prophesied. But if they had stood in my council, they would have proclaimed my words to my people and would have turned them from their evil ways and from their evil deeds.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭23:9, 11, 13-18, 20-22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

notice that it’s the same thing that happened to Adam and Eve god spoke to them then someone else came telling them it’s not true and corrrect like false prophets do the word you accept and believe becomes your faith can be built on truth or lies

“I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart;”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭23:25-26‬ ‭

This false doctrine is what led to thoer disobedience and destruction belief is what we end up acting upon

“Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭14:14-16‬ ‭

Yes brother of course it’s because they didn’t obey the law ….they didn’t believe the word in the law was why they didn’t obey it they didn’t believe God would curse them like he swore he would if they didn’t stop sinning they wouldn’t acknolwedge the truth that he spoke to them so

To believe right leads to acting right they didn’t believe is why they were destroyed in the desert and never entered the promised land

“So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Belief is the root of our actions they refused to believe Moses and the prophets and then refused to believe Jesus thier lord .

Unbelief is one cause of sin,but far from the only cause of sin. People commit adultery even believing it to be sin; even saved people. But my comments weren't really dealing with unbelief, per se, but rather that unbelief wasn't the cause of the destruction of Israel, but failure to meet the stipulations of the old covenant. Unbelief may have had a role in the disobedience, but I don't believe it is the sole cause.

Simple example

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When this word was eves belief she hadn’t eaten the fruit

“And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they had the freedom to eat from the tree of life already at this point , and they’ve been told the truth about the deadly fruit. They are safe because thier mind about the fruit is correct it’s based on what God told them about the fruit it’s going to keep them away from the fruit but then

her belief is attacked with a false doctrine about the fruit that causes death

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-5‬ ‭

If I believe this is true about the fruit , then I’m going to eat it it’s a good thing . But if I remember what God said and believe him , I’m not going to eat the fruit it’s death which will I believe is the question Gods word ? Or the other words out there telling me what God said isn’t true ?

a look what happens when she hears and believes the wrong word something happens to her and her his and who also did the same thing because of the same word she shared with him

“And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they lost the battle the moment they disbelieved Gods warning about the fruit and accepted the lie it altered thier belief about the fruit and that’s why they are the fruit . They didn’t believe Gods warning but satans temptation instead

Grace is something given without condition or stipulation.

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

Can you show a biblical example of grace being "given without condition or stipulation" and being stated as such?

Can you give me an example of Jesus even using the word?

Adam wasn't fooled. He didn't sin because of unbelief. He sinned wilfully, but not due to unbelief...1 Timothy 2:14.

Ephesians 2:8-9.
Jesus....Matthew 5:43-44.
..............Luke 23:34.

;
???

We are talking about what the Bible meant for "only one receives". 1st Cor. 9:24

P.S. The ancient Olympics did not give medals to the winner but an olive wreath.

And only the winner, there was no second place prize.

Ephesians 2:8-9.
Jesus....Matthew 5:43-44.
..............Luke 23:34.

Wasn't Jesus operating in the power of the Spirit?

Grace has conditions.

Do you honestly think that I would not check your verses???

Ephesians 2:89 does not state that there are no conditions for the grace given. You are simply reading the "no constrains" into the verse.

Matthew 5:43-44 and Luke 23:34 does not even use the word "grace". Grace being in the verse was the point of the question!

Is this really all you have???

Okay, so what conditions does your "definition" encompass?


1 Timothy 2:4 New King James Version
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If the above is true, what conditions for God's grace are not being met?

You should be, too.
Does that make you God?

Jesus was operating in the power of the Spirit as we should be so doing if staying cleaned of our sins (1 John 1:9).


Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him
and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
Matthew 4:1-3

It says that Jesus was "led by the Spirit."

If He were functioning in the power as omniscient God?
He would have no need to be led.

He kept on remaining walking in the power of being the second Adam.

grace and peace .........

So he believed he was going to die and commited suicide ? But he didn’t believe the fruit wasn’t deadly like Satan said ?

Eve knew the commandment too

Again, this is about 1st Cor. 9:24 not your red herring "reward" in 1st Cor. 3:15.

This is about staying faithful to the end not the works of man in 1st Cor. 3:15.

You are only convincing those who want to be convinced.

Grace has conditions. It is woven into the very fabric of the Bible.

“For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what if we don’t walk in them?

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I never said He was operating in His own power, but He was operating in the power of God.