Paris Christians arrested for protesting Anti-Christian attacks.
- Thread starter SavedByBlood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Hi @SavedByBlood
Right! And if you read my post, I understand that. But I think they're wrong. A lot of people are wrong about a lot of things. They tend to be those who support their gut instead of their heart operating within them.
God bless you and vote wisely,
Ted
Right! And if you read my post, I understand that. But I think they're wrong. A lot of people are wrong about a lot of things. They tend to be those who support their gut instead of their heart operating within them.
God bless you and vote wisely,
Ted
Absolutely and i agree with you. Compassion and forgiveness sets us free, but since we are not born blind (thanks to God) we can't be mute in our mouths either when we see reality for what it is.
Everyone needs help but we still call the sky blue, or the grass green despite some people who are confused about language because they have mental problems or other dysphoria issues they're dealing with. They need help, not encouragement.
Everyone needs help but we still call the sky blue, or the grass green despite some people who are confused about language because they have mental problems or other dysphoria issues they're dealing with. They need help, not encouragement.
Hi @Eli1
Yes, but it's what we say in answer to these issues that makes the difference. Paul said that we are not to judge those who are not a part of us. I don't know how you read that, but I read that as not judging the sin of the lost. God's instruction to us, through His Son, is that we are to be about proclaiming the gospel of salvation through His Son, Jesus. That for those who will listen and believe, we should baptize them. Then for those who have believed and been baptized...THEN we are to begin teaching them all of the commandments of the Lord.
You have it backwards. You think that your going out and pointing fingers and decrying their sin is somehow going to change them, and it doesn't. That just makes them hate the God that you're using to point your fingers, more. Yes, I've read the book. The vast, vast majority of people who have lived upon the earth will not be partakers in the promise of God. That's what the Scriptures seem to clearly describe for us and I understand that. And when I look around that's exactly what I see. A vast field that is white for harvest, but is presently not being harvested, but condemned as stunted and wicked people. I really don't see that exampled by anyone in the Scriptures, except when God was working through HIS PEOPLE. Now the 'church' is His people and we are to work with the word of God to show them the truth, and He says in love and respect. Do you think you're pointing your crooked finger in their face is showing them love and respect. No! You're showing the strong condemnation of God and that's not what God asks of us under the new covenant.
But each one must give an account of themselves before God. I want to be like Jesus. Do you know that the Scriptures themselves declare that Jesus did not come to condemn us, but to save us. How did he do that? By showing compassion and mercy to the sinners that were all around him every day of his ministry. The only people that Jesus condemned were those who claimed to be on God's side but clearly weren't according to Jesus' testimony in the matter. And we should do the same. For those who are a part of us who are caught in sin, we should, again with gentleness and respect, call them on their sin. For those who are not a part of us, we have to get them to be a part of us before the Scriptures give us any authority to condemn them of their sin. That's how I read the Scriptures and what God asks of us, through His Son, Jesus.
God bless,
Ted
Yes, but it's what we say in answer to these issues that makes the difference. Paul said that we are not to judge those who are not a part of us. I don't know how you read that, but I read that as not judging the sin of the lost. God's instruction to us, through His Son, is that we are to be about proclaiming the gospel of salvation through His Son, Jesus. That for those who will listen and believe, we should baptize them. Then for those who have believed and been baptized...THEN we are to begin teaching them all of the commandments of the Lord.
You have it backwards. You think that your going out and pointing fingers and decrying their sin is somehow going to change them, and it doesn't. That just makes them hate the God that you're using to point your fingers, more. Yes, I've read the book. The vast, vast majority of people who have lived upon the earth will not be partakers in the promise of God. That's what the Scriptures seem to clearly describe for us and I understand that. And when I look around that's exactly what I see. A vast field that is white for harvest, but is presently not being harvested, but condemned as stunted and wicked people. I really don't see that exampled by anyone in the Scriptures, except when God was working through HIS PEOPLE. Now the 'church' is His people and we are to work with the word of God to show them the truth, and He says in love and respect. Do you think you're pointing your crooked finger in their face is showing them love and respect. No! You're showing the strong condemnation of God and that's not what God asks of us under the new covenant.
But each one must give an account of themselves before God. I want to be like Jesus. Do you know that the Scriptures themselves declare that Jesus did not come to condemn us, but to save us. How did he do that? By showing compassion and mercy to the sinners that were all around him every day of his ministry. The only people that Jesus condemned were those who claimed to be on God's side but clearly weren't according to Jesus' testimony in the matter. And we should do the same. For those who are a part of us who are caught in sin, we should, again with gentleness and respect, call them on their sin. For those who are not a part of us, we have to get them to be a part of us before the Scriptures give us any authority to condemn them of their sin. That's how I read the Scriptures and what God asks of us, through His Son, Jesus.
God bless,
Ted
I'm glad that you're mentioning Paul because Paul was the example of how one should talk to people who are in sin.
I love his approach in Greece and it's my primary model when i talk to a specific audience. Paul was led by the Spirit to customize the message according to the audience.
This coincidentally brings us full circle on the issue of communication and mis-understanding that i've been talking about between us Ted, because you come across to me as a person with a lot of let's say, interesting views when it comes to family, inflation, border security, science etc.
So Paul is the prime example in the nuance of language while the current political language nowadays is very inflammatory and you may not realize it yourself when you say a lot of things which will be distasteful to a conservative audience, scientific community, family, financial analysts or other audiences.
So i'm very happy that you mentioned Paul here because that might bring us even closer to understand each-other.
I love his approach in Greece and it's my primary model when i talk to a specific audience. Paul was led by the Spirit to customize the message according to the audience.
This coincidentally brings us full circle on the issue of communication and mis-understanding that i've been talking about between us Ted, because you come across to me as a person with a lot of let's say, interesting views when it comes to family, inflation, border security, science etc.
So Paul is the prime example in the nuance of language while the current political language nowadays is very inflammatory and you may not realize it yourself when you say a lot of things which will be distasteful to a conservative audience, scientific community, family, financial analysts or other audiences.
So i'm very happy that you mentioned Paul here because that might bring us even closer to understand each-other.
Hey @Eli1
Ok. And where do you have an example to show me where Paul condemned those who were not a part of the fellowship of believers? I know he gives us an example of how we are to deal with sin within the fellowship. In fact , he told one congregation that they should put a man out of their fellowship over his sin. But that man was a part of the fellowship.
So, what you got? Chapter and verse that Paul stood up before sinners and condemned them of their sin... and how did he do it?
God bless,
Ted
Ok. And where do you have an example to show me where Paul condemned those who were not a part of the fellowship of believers? I know he gives us an example of how we are to deal with sin within the fellowship. In fact , he told one congregation that they should put a man out of their fellowship over his sin. But that man was a part of the fellowship.
So, what you got? Chapter and verse that Paul stood up before sinners and condemned them of their sin... and how did he do it?
God bless,
Ted
-
1
- Show all
Paul here, studies the Greeks, compliments them on their beliefs (which are wrong) and tells them that they are "Ignorant of the things that they worship".
So he doesn't talk out of thin-air, but he has studied what the Greeks were all about and then makes a beautiful segway into their Unknown god.
I'm guessing that the word "ignorant" may be too "inflammatory" for you and your views or are you okay with that?
While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
Hi @Eli1
That's it? No condemnation for their sin, just explaining to them that they are ignorant of what they are worshipping. Never mentioned a word about their sin. Just that they were ignorant of what they were worshipping. And then what does it say that Paul did to address that ignorance? Did he jump up and down and wave flags and hold the Scriptures up to their faces with a 'see, look here how God sees all you sinners!' Nope. He told them about Jesus. Calmly, clearly laid out the gospel before them. Not once did he condemn them for their sin. He even allowed that their practices were because they were ignorant of the one true and living God. That's it.
So, that's all you've got to support the new 'evangelical christain movement' of marching with placards and condemning the world of its sin? Ok.
Oh, and yes, we should be moved to compassion and some distress when we see all the sin of the world, but Paul didn't let that be what he preached to them.
God bless,
Ted
Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.
Hi @Eli1
That's it? No condemnation for their sin, just explaining to them that they are ignorant of what they are worshipping. Never mentioned a word about their sin. Just that they were ignorant of what they were worshipping. And then what does it say that Paul did to address that ignorance? Did he jump up and down and wave flags and hold the Scriptures up to their faces with a 'see, look here how God sees all you sinners!' Nope. He told them about Jesus. Calmly, clearly laid out the gospel before them. Not once did he condemn them for their sin. He even allowed that their practices were because they were ignorant of the one true and living God. That's it.
So, that's all you've got to support the new 'evangelical christain movement' of marching with placards and condemning the world of its sin? Ok.
Oh, and yes, we should be moved to compassion and some distress when we see all the sin of the world, but Paul didn't let that be what he preached to them.
God bless,
Ted
Ah okay, so you're saying that Paul should have been more hardcore here? And tell them directly about their sin of worshiping false gods? You know, the very thing that you advised against a few posts above?
You don't think he did that when he told them "you are ignorant"?
You also seem to have a distaste for the Westboro Baptist church priests which hit people over their heads with a Bible and they push people away. This is also a distaste that i share with you, but this distaste doesn't blind me to see reality for what it is and to go from one extreme onto another.
Makes sense?
You don't think he did that when he told them "you are ignorant"?
You also seem to have a distaste for the Westboro Baptist church priests which hit people over their heads with a Bible and they push people away. This is also a distaste that i share with you, but this distaste doesn't blind me to see reality for what it is and to go from one extreme onto another.
Makes sense?
Hi @JohnDB
I'm going to assume that the subject of your sentence, 'he' is a reference to me.
No. You're wrong. I didn't come here to talk you out of your belief, as far as what you believe about Jesus and his purpose for coming to Israel. But I do have some serious doubts that 'how' christians are doing more 'condemning' than 'gospel preaching' and that doesnt seem to be how the writers of the Scriptures seem to explain how the early church was built.
So, just wanted to be clear on 'what' I'm actually arguing here. You seem to want to make the point that I'm trying to tear down someone's faith. No!!!! Not at all and let me be condemned of God if that's the purpose of my words. But I assure you that it isn't.
God bless you,
Ted
I'm going to assume that the subject of your sentence, 'he' is a reference to me.
No. You're wrong. I didn't come here to talk you out of your belief, as far as what you believe about Jesus and his purpose for coming to Israel. But I do have some serious doubts that 'how' christians are doing more 'condemning' than 'gospel preaching' and that doesnt seem to be how the writers of the Scriptures seem to explain how the early church was built.
So, just wanted to be clear on 'what' I'm actually arguing here. You seem to want to make the point that I'm trying to tear down someone's faith. No!!!! Not at all and let me be condemned of God if that's the purpose of my words. But I assure you that it isn't.
God bless you,
Ted
I bypassed the ignore to address this.
CHRISTIANS DO NOT CONDEMN!
That is God's job. Christians warn others of their impending disaster.
And considering that America is a Nation built by Christians for Christians....the hedonists have the hutzpa to tell the inhabitants how wrong they are when we built the oldest and longest standing nation in world history. But somehow we are wrong?
All the hedonists have built nations and empires and they ALL have self destructed.
So excuse me when I abhor all you are preaching. You are literally trying to eternally destroy people....kill them for all eternity while we few Christians are explaining eternal life and the dangers of hedonism to this mortal life at the same time.
So your judgementalism is not welcome here stemming from your crap theological viewpoint of us and what we stand for.
We stand for unity
you promote politics and political fighting....
We promote purity
You promote moral turpitude.
You have absolutely nothing in common with us while claiming to "respect" us.....you have no respect whatsoever.
CHRISTIANS DO NOT CONDEMN!
That is God's job. Christians warn others of their impending disaster.
And considering that America is a Nation built by Christians for Christians....the hedonists have the hutzpa to tell the inhabitants how wrong they are when we built the oldest and longest standing nation in world history. But somehow we are wrong?
All the hedonists have built nations and empires and they ALL have self destructed.
So excuse me when I abhor all you are preaching. You are literally trying to eternally destroy people....kill them for all eternity while we few Christians are explaining eternal life and the dangers of hedonism to this mortal life at the same time.
So your judgementalism is not welcome here stemming from your crap theological viewpoint of us and what we stand for.
We stand for unity
you promote politics and political fighting....
We promote purity
You promote moral turpitude.
You have absolutely nothing in common with us while claiming to "respect" us.....you have no respect whatsoever.
-
1
- Show all
He has been on ignore but I was curious às to what @Eli1 was saying in context. So I looked.
My bad.
I hate politics and especially politicians....including Republicans as well as Democrats and independents.
The infighting will destroy a very old constitution.
"People" in the phrase "We the People" is capitalized not because the Framers of the Constitution thought that people collectively were all that brilliant or great but that as we collectively worshipped God we are Saints. Which gets a capitalized letter according to the proper rules of grammar. They could have said "We the Saints of God" but since they were establishing a secular Government they did not wish to even approach putting words in God's mouth. They owned some humility instead of hubris.
EVERY line of the Preamble of the Constitution is a declaration of this nation's devotion to God. We may do it differently...but the universal devotion is unmistakable or deniable. Just for today some people claim that this is not a Christian Nation....
Nobody claims Italy is not for Italians.
Germany is not for Germans
Ireland is not for Irish....
So, to me, the rest of the whole stinking world (including the political ones from America) can bugger off when they claim the USA is not for Christians or treat us as if we are a subculture minority group.
My bad.
I hate politics and especially politicians....including Republicans as well as Democrats and independents.
The infighting will destroy a very old constitution.
"People" in the phrase "We the People" is capitalized not because the Framers of the Constitution thought that people collectively were all that brilliant or great but that as we collectively worshipped God we are Saints. Which gets a capitalized letter according to the proper rules of grammar. They could have said "We the Saints of God" but since they were establishing a secular Government they did not wish to even approach putting words in God's mouth. They owned some humility instead of hubris.
EVERY line of the Preamble of the Constitution is a declaration of this nation's devotion to God. We may do it differently...but the universal devotion is unmistakable or deniable. Just for today some people claim that this is not a Christian Nation....
Nobody claims Italy is not for Italians.
Germany is not for Germans
Ireland is not for Irish....
So, to me, the rest of the whole stinking world (including the political ones from America) can bugger off when they claim the USA is not for Christians or treat us as if we are a subculture minority group.
-
1
- Show all
Hi @JohnDB
What a humorous person you are. You apparently have me on ignore, but you can't stand it. Look, friend, you have to do what you believe is right. You have to follow what you believe is what Jesus teaches us as his commandments that we are to strive to follow as we sojourn in this life awaiting our soon coming salvation. I believe that Jesus teaches that we are to have compassion for the lost. I believe that Jesus ate with sinners. I don't know, but something niggles in my mind that you wouldn't approve of that. But I want to be more like Jesus, not you. I believe that as a citizen of the United States we have a government given right to cast a ballot for who we think is the best person to run the country.
Now for me, the border obviously isn't as big an issue as it is for you. Yes, I think we need to do better, but I'm not willing to make a deal with the devil to do it. And yes, I know that you don't see it that way. But remember, I'm the one trying to master compassion and love. Not hate and division. But you are free to seek whichever agenda suits you.
And you, friend, have been spreading unkind rumors about me for quite some time. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of christian charity around here. I am not a troll. I am a real live breathing God-fearing human being, just as I imagine you proclaim of yourself. Go and understand this saying, "Physician heal thyself."
God bless you both and I do hope that you vote wisely,
Ted
What a humorous person you are. You apparently have me on ignore, but you can't stand it. Look, friend, you have to do what you believe is right. You have to follow what you believe is what Jesus teaches us as his commandments that we are to strive to follow as we sojourn in this life awaiting our soon coming salvation. I believe that Jesus teaches that we are to have compassion for the lost. I believe that Jesus ate with sinners. I don't know, but something niggles in my mind that you wouldn't approve of that. But I want to be more like Jesus, not you. I believe that as a citizen of the United States we have a government given right to cast a ballot for who we think is the best person to run the country.
Now for me, the border obviously isn't as big an issue as it is for you. Yes, I think we need to do better, but I'm not willing to make a deal with the devil to do it. And yes, I know that you don't see it that way. But remember, I'm the one trying to master compassion and love. Not hate and division. But you are free to seek whichever agenda suits you.
And you, friend, have been spreading unkind rumors about me for quite some time. I don't know, but I don't see a lot of christian charity around here. I am not a troll. I am a real live breathing God-fearing human being, just as I imagine you proclaim of yourself. Go and understand this saying, "Physician heal thyself."
God bless you both and I do hope that you vote wisely,
Ted
The Feast of the Gods - Geovanni Bellini
So, objectively, you genuinely think the act has more resemblance of "The Feast of the Gods"? Even if you say "Yes!", we all know you're lying... even you know you're lying.
If you say the act has more resemblance to "The Feast of the Olympian Gods" by Jan Van Bijlert, then you must concede that this painting was done about 150 years after Da Vinci's painting and is a pagan adaptation of the Last Supper. Either way, your desperate attempts at making Christians looking silly for linking the opening act to the Last Supper fail epically.
The Feast of the (Olympian) Gods - Jan Van Bijlert
God bless,
Smoke
So, objectively, you genuinely think the act has more resemblance of "The Feast of the Gods"? Even if you say "Yes!", we all know you're lying... even you know you're lying.
If you say the act has more resemblance to "The Feast of the Olympian Gods" by Jan Van Bijlert, then you must concede that this painting was done about 150 years after Da Vinci's painting and is a pagan adaptation of the Last Supper. Either way, your desperate attempts at making Christians looking silly for linking the opening act to the Last Supper fail epically.
The Feast of the (Olympian) Gods - Jan Van Bijlert
God bless,
Smoke
-
1
- Show all
Hi @Eli1
Is that what you think I'm saying in talking about your example? Yeah, I can see where you have difficulties in understanding. No, I was pointing out how Paul, as I've been saying, didn't go around condemning people for sin... unless they were a part of the fellowship. And in your example that's exactly what Paul didn't do. He did not condemn them for their sin. He merely said that their understanding was from ignorance and he was going to explain the gospel to them that they might be saved. Didn't say a word about how offending it is to God that they're bowing down before false gods. Never said a thing about any condemnation for some sin. Just explained that they were ignorant and told them the truth.
Are you now able to understand? I was using your example to show that you were wrong in your understanding of what this specific and particular example of his teaching was to be taken by us. It is not any justification that believers now 2,000 years later can go around condemning the lost for their sin. Sure, if you want to go around and tell someone that what they are doing is out of ignorance of not knowing the one true and living Savior, that's fine. Have at it.
Then teach them about Jesus, just as Paul did.
You really didn't get any of that?
God bless,
Ted
Is that what you think I'm saying in talking about your example? Yeah, I can see where you have difficulties in understanding. No, I was pointing out how Paul, as I've been saying, didn't go around condemning people for sin... unless they were a part of the fellowship. And in your example that's exactly what Paul didn't do. He did not condemn them for their sin. He merely said that their understanding was from ignorance and he was going to explain the gospel to them that they might be saved. Didn't say a word about how offending it is to God that they're bowing down before false gods. Never said a thing about any condemnation for some sin. Just explained that they were ignorant and told them the truth.
Are you now able to understand? I was using your example to show that you were wrong in your understanding of what this specific and particular example of his teaching was to be taken by us. It is not any justification that believers now 2,000 years later can go around condemning the lost for their sin. Sure, if you want to go around and tell someone that what they are doing is out of ignorance of not knowing the one true and living Savior, that's fine. Have at it.
Then teach them about Jesus, just as Paul did.
You really didn't get any of that?
God bless,
Ted