Does anyone know of....

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Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
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43
#1
Does anyone know of people who are convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism and are also assured that they are not part of those chosen few?

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,121
6,892
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#2
Does anyone know of people who are convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism and are also assured that they are not part of those chosen few?

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
You might get better answers if you were to ask the question differently. I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning their salvation.
Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children?
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
338
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#3
Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children?
That would be God causing it to happen in your belief system. Always remember, ALL evil comes from God, even though your confessions of faith will speak out of two sides of their mouths.

Not a single evil deed the devil does that God has not predestinated, always remember.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,121
6,892
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#4
That would be God causing it to happen in your belief system. Always remember, ALL evil comes from God, even though your confessions of faith will speak out of two sides of their mouths.

Not a single evil deed the devil does that God has not predestinated, always remember.
You don't know my belief system if you believe what you posted is what I believe. God being first cause of all things doesn't make Him responsible for the actions of His creations.
You should be careful how you post concerning God's people. And don't worry, I don't blame God for you bearing false witness.
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#5
You might get better answers if you were to ask the question differently. I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning their salvation.
Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children?
I believe the question was asked quite clearly.

Your answer: "I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning the salvation." does not address the question.

"believe much of the reformed faith" does not equal "convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism".
"have doubts concerning their salvation " certainly does not equal "assured that they are not part of those chosen few"

Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children? Not sure what this has to do with anything.

You ignored this part:

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
Not a single evil deed the devil does that God has not predestinated, always remember.
OUCH!
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
338
177
43
#6
You don't know my belief system if you believe what you posted is what I believe. God being first cause of all things doesn't make Him responsible for the actions of His creations.
You should be careful how you post concerning God's people. And don't worry, I don't blame God for you bearing false witness.
You just confirmed what I said to be true when you said "God being the first cause of all things". Once again, both sides out of your mouth.

God is the first cause of everything, yet responsible for nothing? Make it make sense. Its not bearing false witness its called being logically consistent. You guys always do this, if I would get a knickle for each time James White claims this id be a rich man.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,121
6,892
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#7
You just confirmed what I said to be true when you said "God being the first cause of all things". Once again, both sides out of your mouth.

God is the first cause of everything, yet responsible for nothing? Make it make sense. Its not bearing false witness its called being logically consistent. You guys always do this, if I would get a knickle for each time James White claims this id be a rich man.
By virtue of being the Creator, everything that follows is the result of creation. So, since God is that Creator, He is the first cause.
The man who invented the automobile is the first cause of all that follows as a result. But whoever that person is is not responsible for you running over someone.
It's not a difficult concept.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
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#8
That would be God causing it to happen in your belief system. Always remember, ALL evil comes from God, even though your confessions of faith will speak out of two sides of their mouths.

Not a single evil deed the devil does that God has not predestinated, always remember.
You seem to have completely missed the two aspects of God's Sovereign will.

God has both an "Active" will and a "Passive" will. Are better stated, a "Direct" will and a "Permissive" will.

When God acts in His Direct will, nothing can stop what has been directed to occur or has been promised by Him. In the case of His Permissive will, God "allows" it to take place but does not direct it to take place. Therefore, God "allowed" sin/evil to enter into Creation but did not direct it or it's actions. However, He did "Plan" or "Direct" a resolution for it, in Jesus Christ, Election, Regeneration, Justification and eventually Glorification.
 

awelight

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
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#9
I believe the question was asked quite clearly.

Your answer: "I know some who believe much of the reformed faith, but who still have doubts concerning the salvation." does not address the question.

"believe much of the reformed faith" does not equal "convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism".
"have doubts concerning their salvation " certainly does not equal "assured that they are not part of those chosen few"

Do you not think that the evil one attacks all God's children? Not sure what this has to do with anything.

You ignored this part:

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?

OUCH!
You would be correct in stating that, not all of the Reformed Movement believes in all of the tenets of John Calvin.

The problem is in the labels, whether it be Calvinism, Arminianism or what ever. A "label" is just a quick way to say you are aligned with one view or another. It does not necessarily follow, that you believe every aspect of that view. To lump individuals into a particular "label" is like saying all human beings are exactly the same in every aspect. What is really important here, is that we, as believers, STRIVE to obtain the TRUTH from the Holy Word of God. Bible Commentators can be helpful in our studies but they too, are STRIVING for the TRUTH of God's Holy Word.

To answer your last statement, about assurance... YES, we can be assured that all of whom God saves - ARE SAVED and ALL of whom God does not save - will go into condemnation. The Sovereign choice is the Creators - not the creation. Those who are saved - love God's Sovereignty in all things. Those who still lack Grace hate God's Sovereignty.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,382
2,486
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#10
Does anyone know of people who are convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism and are also assured that they are not part of those chosen few?

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?

I do not think I know anyone personally, most who hold to these tenets tended to be more assured of their salvation based the tenet that the saints of God will preserver.

However, Derek Webb, former Calvinist (singer/song writer) came up on a different thread.

These are lyrics from his song. he became an atheist.

Consider these lyrics from the song which closes his new album, “Goodbye For Now:”

“So either you aren’t real
Or I am just not chosen
Maybe I’ll never know
Either way my heart is broken
As I say, goodbye for now”


So tragic.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,248
30,363
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#11
God has both an "Active" will and a "Passive" will. Are better stated, a "Direct" will and a "Permissive" will.
Or sovereign and permissive will. We also know His moral will...

:)
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,382
2,486
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#12
YES, we can be assured that all of whom God saves - ARE SAVED and ALL of whom God does not save - will go into condemnation. The Sovereign choice is the Creators - not the creation. Those who are saved - love God's Sovereignty in all things. Those who still lack Grace hate God's Sovereignty.
Bravo the "sovereign" card, only took til the ninth post.
 

HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
6,382
2,486
113
#13
Does anyone know of people who are convinced of the validity of the tenets of Calvinism and are also assured that they are not part of those chosen few?

If we can be assured of our salvation because of predestination, can the opposite be true of our damnation?
Imagine being raised in church that teaches you are born morally incapable of belief.
I find it incomprehensible really. :(

It must have been a truly original thinker who read the Gospel of John and came away with that.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,248
30,363
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#14
Imagine being raised in church that teaches you are born morally incapable of belief.
I find it incomprehensible really. :(

It must have been a truly original thinker who read the Gospel of John and came away with that.
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. John 8:34

Free will is not taught in the Bible. Not. Any. Where.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,248
30,363
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#15

Romans 9:19-21 One of you will say to me, “Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
143
43
#17
Free will is not taught in the Bible. Not. Any. Where.
I want every person here to let this comment sink in!

Do not be too harsh, she had no free will to not write that comment.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#18
Not a single evil deed the devil does that God has not predestinated, always remember.
There is a HUGE difference between "predestined" and "foreknown". Since God and Christ HATE iniquity, sin, evil, wickedness, and idolatry, it is impossible for God -- who is Light -- to predestine any of this. However, He did ALLOW Satan to sin, and he did allow sin to enter into this world for a season only. If you are making God responsible for evil, then you do have a problem.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#19
Free will is not taught in the Bible. Not. Any. Where.
This is hilarious. :cool:

So let's look at why it is taught in the Bible from almost the first day of creation: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. (Gen 1:27)

Does God have free will? Absolutely. Did He create man in his image (which includes the ability to make free decisions)? Absolutely.

Do we see this illustrated in Genesis 2:16,17? And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Some people would have this verse like this in order to believe that mankind has free will:
1. Adam you can eat of every tree in Eden with one exception.
2. You are forbidden to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
3. But because you have free will, you could choose to disobey me. I hope you don't.
4. However, be warned -- on the day that you disobey me and eat that fruit, you will surely die.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,248
30,363
113
#20
I want every person here to let this comment sink in!

Do not be too harsh, she had no free will to not write that comment.
Making choices does not equate to having a will that is free.

Not to worry. Jesus can set you free.

That is what the Bible teaches.

Not your error. Many make the same error.