My God, My God. Why have you forsaken me?

Hi believers,

For many years I wondered about these words that Jesus spoke. Why would God forsake His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I mean the old covenant is clear that Jesus had to die for our sin. So, he did. He brought glory to the Father through his steadfast love and obedience to all that his Father asked of him. Why would God forsake him for that?

However, I have since come to an understanding that answers my ponderings. God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi. He said at one time, "You call me Rabbi and so it is." A Rabbi is a Jewish teacher. Jesus was a Jewish teacher to Israel. In the early beginning of his ministry in a gathering of Jewish believers in Nazareth, he read and proclaimed the words of the prophet Isaiah. He then told the people in attendance that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their very hearing. So, Jesus opened his ministry with likely the most powerful and accurate description of all that Messiah was supposed to do. Then he went out and did it.

As the end of his ministry, he also closed with one of the most powerful words of the Scriptures about how his death was going to happen. That passage begins, My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?

So, he began his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures all that Messiah was going to do as he lived among us. He closed his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures that they were witnessing the very death that had been prophesied by Isaiah, also. It's a practice that is referred to as 'remez'. Remez is a technique of using part of a Scripture passage to imply the fuller meaning of a teaching.

In Israel, in the days of Jesus, the Scriptures did not have chapter and verses as we have today to easily locate a passage that a preacher might be teaching on. In our day, our teachers just say, "turn in your bibles to the book of Acts chapter 3 vs 12- 18." Everyone opens their copy of the Scriptures to the book of Acts chapter 3 and verse 12. But in Jesus day there was no such way to identify where a teaching might be coming from in the Scriptures. So, it was a very common practice for the teacher to begin by quoting a particular passage and everyone would know where that passage was and be able to see where the teaching was in the Scriptures. This is what Jesus was doing for those chief priests and scribes and pharisees that were hanging around as he was dying for their sin. He was telling them as their Rabbi, "Go look and find this passage and read what it says about this death that you are right now in your life witnessing before your very eyes. In their very hearing would be how Jesus would have put it

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.

God bless you all,
Ted

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.

Hi believers,

For many years I wondered about these words that Jesus spoke. Why would God forsake His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I mean the old covenant is clear that Jesus had to die for our sin. So, he did. He brought glory to the Father through his steadfast love and obedience to all that his Father asked of him. Why would God forsake him for that?

However, I have since come to an understanding that answers my ponderings. God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi. He said at one time, "You call me Rabbi and so it is." A Rabbi is a Jewish teacher. Jesus was a Jewish teacher to Israel. In the early beginning of his ministry in a gathering of Jewish believers in Nazareth, he read and proclaimed the words of the prophet Isaiah. He then told the people in attendance that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their very hearing. So, Jesus opened his ministry with likely the most powerful and accurate description of all that Messiah was supposed to do. Then he went out and did it.

As the end of his ministry, he also closed with one of the most powerful words of the Scriptures about how his death was going to happen. That passage begins, My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?

So, he began his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures all that Messiah was going to do as he lived among us. He closed his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures that they were witnessing the very death that had been prophesied by Isaiah, also. It's a practice that is referred to as 'remez'. Remez is a technique of using part of a Scripture passage to imply the fuller meaning of a teaching.

In Israel, in the days of Jesus, the Scriptures did not have chapter and verses as we have today to easily locate a passage that a preacher might be teaching on. In our day, our teachers just say, "turn in your bibles to the book of Acts chapter 3 vs 12- 18." Everyone opens their copy of the Scriptures to the book of Acts chapter 3 and verse 12. But in Jesus day there was no such way to identify where a teaching might be coming from in the Scriptures. So, it was a very common practice for the teacher to begin by quoting a particular passage and everyone would know where that passage was and be able to see where the teaching was in the Scriptures. This is what Jesus was doing for those chief priests and scribes and pharisees that were hanging around as he was dying for their sin. He was telling them as their Rabbi, "Go look and find this passage and read what it says about this death that you are right now in your life witnessing before your very eyes. In their very hearing would be how Jesus would have put it

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.

God bless you all,
Ted

Hi believers,

For many years I wondered about these words that Jesus spoke. Why would God forsake His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I mean the old covenant is clear that Jesus had to die for our sin. So, he did. He brought glory to the Father through his steadfast love and obedience to all that his Father asked of him. Why would God forsake him for that?

However, I have since come to an understanding that answers my ponderings. God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi. He said at one time, "You call me Rabbi and so it is." A Rabbi is a Jewish teacher. Jesus was a Jewish teacher to Israel. In the early beginning of his ministry in a gathering of Jewish believers in Nazareth, he read and proclaimed the words of the prophet Isaiah. He then told the people in attendance that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their very hearing. So, Jesus opened his ministry with likely the most powerful and accurate description of all that Messiah was supposed to do. Then he went out and did it.

As the end of his ministry, he also closed with one of the most powerful words of the Scriptures about how his death was going to happen. That passage begins, My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?

So, he began his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures all that Messiah was going to do as he lived among us. He closed his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures that they were witnessing the very death that had been prophesied by Isaiah, also. It's a practice that is referred to as 'remez'. Remez is a technique of using part of a Scripture passage to imply the fuller meaning of a teaching.

In Israel, in the days of Jesus, the Scriptures did not have chapter and verses as we have today to easily locate a passage that a preacher might be teaching on. In our day, our teachers just say, "turn in your bibles to the book of Acts chapter 3 vs 12- 18." Everyone opens their copy of the Scriptures to the book of Acts chapter 3 and verse 12. But in Jesus day there was no such way to identify where a teaching might be coming from in the Scriptures. So, it was a very common practice for the teacher to begin by quoting a particular passage and everyone would know where that passage was and be able to see where the teaching was in the Scriptures. This is what Jesus was doing for those chief priests and scribes and pharisees that were hanging around as he was dying for their sin. He was telling them as their Rabbi, "Go look and find this passage and read what it says about this death that you are right now in your life witnessing before your very eyes. In their very hearing would be how Jesus would have put it

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.

God bless you all,
Ted

Jesus said "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me", because God forsook Him. I do not understand why so many shy away from this, not why they would, but with open eye and in truth how they could. Do you not understand God's view on our sin? He is just, ALL sin must be punished, ALL sin. This is another example of how our God is great, worthy, and love one a level we can't fathom. Jesus, God in the flesh, perfect, born of the Spirit NOT Adam/flesh, fully God and fully man, completely obedient to His Fathers will, was the perfect lamb God said He'd provide to Abraham in Genesis. He came and taught us the truth, and we took Him and just like the "The wicked tenants" parable when He sent His Son, and we thought we'd kill Him and take the inheritance for ourselves. We took the ONLY innocent man in history and convicted Him then executed Him in the worst way we could.
Whipped, beaten, spit on, insulted, humiliated, then nails driven through His arms, to be hung to die. But while this was a huge part of us understanding the magnitude of the price paid, the blood shed is undeniable, this isn't it. This was just the flesh/man side. The true price paid was the full force of Gods wrath poured out on Jesus head. THIS WAS THE WHOLE PRICE PAID!!!! Jesus was forsaken on that cross so we could justly be given His perfect righteousness. This IS the punishment for our sin that He took for us.

I really don't like it when people deny this as if it would make God this horrible monster if it was true, and no loving God would ever do this to His Son. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT AND WHAT MAKES IT SUCH A UNIQUE EXAMPLE OF HOW GOD LOVES US. If He didn't put your punishment on Jesus then you still have it coming. I also don't like the way most think about it either, as if Jesus is amazing for laying His life down, but never think about how crazy hard it was for the Father to do this to His own Son for our sakes. It's so unbelievable on EVERY level, and we should rob it of any of this. I understand why it's hard to swallow this teaching, but when you get down to the truth, this is what it is, there wasn't JUST a blood price paid that day, the Spiritual price was also paid, please don't act as if this half is "too much", it's denying Him glory.

Psalm 22 is a prophecy that was fulfilled. God did forsake his son. Why? Because, at that moment, Christ became sin for us. God’s eyes are too holy to behold sin.

Habakuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I'm trying to understand. If according to the Trinity Jesus is all God, how or why would Jesus think that He had forsaken Himself? Why would He even question the Father or even pray to himself? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are supposed to be one being. If they are three different minds, how can they be one being? Someone please explain.

There is a wide range of Christologies within the church universal. This is mine, which I am sure will be classified as heretical to many.

At the end of Augustus Caesar's reign he adopted Tiberius as his son, and for two years both Augustus and Tiberius jointly reigned as Caesar. What Tiberius decreed and ruled, Augustus validated and vice versa. So there was one imperium but two persons operating co-equally within that one imperium.

I would see my position as that of a kenotic social trinitarian. I think that God is one unanimous imperium of three co-equal persons, who are each ever-existing, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, It is the distinct ego of each Person that makes them three distinct persons. It is their common ever-existence that makes them each Divine. It is their unanimity in decision-making that makes them one God/imperium. I see them as a Community of three Divine Persons. Hence, "social trinitarian".

I regard each person's distinct ego, their centre of consciousness from which they are aware of themself as "I" , as enduring through ; but each persons attributes can vary over time. they do not become a different ego/I when their attributes change. I consider that the Divine Son's ego/I gave up (emptied Himself of, Greek kenoO, hence kenosis) certain divine attributes when He incarnated to become human, yet remained the same ego/I, who had created the world with the Father and Holy Spirit. I regard Jesus prayer in John 17 to include His request to receive back the divine attributes given up to incarnate as human, attributes He had had with the Father before the world began.

Because the ever-existing Ego/I of the Son is distinct from the Father and Spirit, and lacked His surrendered omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence, he relied on the Father and Spirit to work their divine attributes through Him. he Himself was not doing the works, but the Father in Him was doing the works. Holding this understanding of the relationship between Father, Son and Spirit means that the Father forsaking the Son, and the Son praying to the Father are not problematic at all.

The classical trinitarian model I do find problematic. being and essence are not biblical categories. They are philosophical categories. Imposing them into the Bible to squeeze scripture into a foreign philosophical construct is not at all helpful IMHO.

Hi believers,

For many years I wondered about these words that Jesus spoke. Why would God forsake His Son for doing exactly what he was supposed to do. I mean the old covenant is clear that Jesus had to die for our sin. So, he did. He brought glory to the Father through his steadfast love and obedience to all that his Father asked of him. Why would God forsake him for that?

However, I have since come to an understanding that answers my ponderings. God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi. He said at one time, "You call me Rabbi and so it is." A Rabbi is a Jewish teacher. Jesus was a Jewish teacher to Israel. In the early beginning of his ministry in a gathering of Jewish believers in Nazareth, he read and proclaimed the words of the prophet Isaiah. He then told the people in attendance that this prophecy was being fulfilled in their very hearing. So, Jesus opened his ministry with likely the most powerful and accurate description of all that Messiah was supposed to do. Then he went out and did it.

As the end of his ministry, he also closed with one of the most powerful words of the Scriptures about how his death was going to happen. That passage begins, My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?

So, he began his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures all that Messiah was going to do as he lived among us. He closed his ministry telling everyone from the Scriptures that they were witnessing the very death that had been prophesied by Isaiah, also. It's a practice that is referred to as 'remez'. Remez is a technique of using part of a Scripture passage to imply the fuller meaning of a teaching.

In Israel, in the days of Jesus, the Scriptures did not have chapter and verses as we have today to easily locate a passage that a preacher might be teaching on. In our day, our teachers just say, "turn in your bibles to the book of Acts chapter 3 vs 12- 18." Everyone opens their copy of the Scriptures to the book of Acts chapter 3 and verse 12. But in Jesus day there was no such way to identify where a teaching might be coming from in the Scriptures. So, it was a very common practice for the teacher to begin by quoting a particular passage and everyone would know where that passage was and be able to see where the teaching was in the Scriptures. This is what Jesus was doing for those chief priests and scribes and pharisees that were hanging around as he was dying for their sin. He was telling them as their Rabbi, "Go look and find this passage and read what it says about this death that you are right now in your life witnessing before your very eyes. In their very hearing would be how Jesus would have put it

So, I don't believe that God did forsake His Son. But I do believe that God caused to be written some hundreds of years before the event, those words found in psalm 22. I further believe that just as Jesus' purpose in quoting the words of Isaiah to that fellowship of Jewish believers in Nazareth when he began his ministry as a testimony to them to watch and see, that he also spoke the words of this psalm telling them to watch and see.


The answer is an emphatic NO. Let me first say from Isaiah 53:4, "Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted."
Christ was clearly considered "accursed" in the eyes of humanity, particularly the Jewish nation, and yet He ever remained the holy Son with whom the Father was well pleased." (Mark 1:11, Matthew 3:17 and Luke 3:22.)

Regarding Psalm 22:1, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me." Here, Jesus was merely quoting the first line of Psalm 22 to show the spectators that His crucifixion had been prophesied by David thousands of years earlier, and that He was, in fact the "suffering Servant" that had been promised by the Old Testament prophets.
What's interesting is the fact that David's immediate reason for writing them was to describe his own feelings of forsakenness while he was being hunted down and persecuted by King Saul. Note what he says in the last part of vs1, "Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning."

David was complaining that God had left him and in his plea, vs10, he says, "Upon Thee I was cast from birth; Thou hast been my God from my mother's womb."
David continues to explain his plight when at vs12 many, "Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me." Vs14, "I am poured out like water." Vs16, "For the dogs have surrounded me; A band of evildoers has encompassed me; They pierced my hands and feet." (sound familiar?)

Finally, at verses 22-25 David praises the Lord. Just as God did not turn away from David in his distress, neither did He turn away from His own begotten Son. I remember many, many years ago it was said that God cannot look upon sin.
2 Corinthians 5:21 was used to support that opinion. "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." What was not quoted was verse was 2 Corinthians 5:19, "namely, THAT GOD WAS IN CHRIST reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

Lastly, the following verse seals the deal that God the Father did not abandon or forsake His Son. The word of Jesus Christ Himself at John 16:32, "Behold, an hour is coming and has already come for you to be scattered each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; AND YET I AM NOT ALONE, BECAUSE THE FATHER IS WITH ME."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Did Jesus pray to receive His divine attributes back or His glory?

The Father had an angelic protection squad keeping those who would attack Him at bay.[/QUOTE.

Hi @PaulThomson

I agree with all that you have written. However, I'm not clear on how your position addresses my question as to 'why' Jesus said, "My God, my God. Why have you forsaken me?"

Yes, the angels actually did come and minister to Jesus' needs after his time in the wilderness. But as he told Pilate, and you are saying, when it came time for Jesus to offer that perfect sacrifice that God had planned all along for His Son to do, those angels were held at bay.

SUMMARY
The glory of God is interwoven throughout the biblical story and forms the origin, content, and goal of the entire cosmic narrative. God’s glory is the magnificence, worth, loveliness, and grandeur of his many perfections. God communicates his glory through his creation, image-bearers, providence, and redemptive acts. God’s people respond by glorifying him. God receives glory and, through uniting his people to Christ, shares his glory with them. And all of this contributes to his glory, as God in his manifold perfections is exhibited, known, rejoiced in, and prized. https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/essay/the-glory-of-god/#:~:text=God's glory is the magnificence,shares his glory with them.

Name something that exhibits God's glory that is not an attribute of God.

God did not forsake His Son. Jesus referred to himself as Rabbi.

I think this is a much better explanation than those that try to explain why God did abandon his son (which is kind of absurd to me). I tend to lean toward this understanding of the text.

There are also Aramaic speakers who say that "forsaken" is not a good English rendering of "Sabacthanai"; which they say means "kept or left behind for a purpose" ; in this case his last words are understood as declarative instead of interrogative. Kinda goes against western tradition; but tradition is only as valuable as it is valid.

I'm trying to understand. If according to the Trinity Jesus is all God, how or why would Jesus think that He had forsaken Himself? Why would He even question the Father or even pray to himself? The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are supposed to be one being. If they are three different minds, how can they be one being? Someone please explain.

Psalm 22 is a prophecy that was fulfilled. God did forsake his son. Why? Because, at that moment, Christ became sin for us. God’s eyes are too holy to behold sin.

Habakuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.