Divine Name King James Version makes for a more accurate translation.

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J

JJoseph

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#21
Jan 6, 2024
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#21
And the practice of referring to God as "G-d" or "Hashem" (means "the Name") came from unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and Rabbis who rejected Jesus Christ. These same Jews, in some of their writings against Christ, bear witness that Jesus Christ Himself used the Name of the Lord Jehovah while quoting from the Torah or Old Testament Scriptures in His Day.

"Yeshu later went to the Jerusalem Temple and learned the letters of God's ineffable name (one could do anything desired by them). He gathered 310 young men and proclaimed himself the Messiah, claiming Isaiah's "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" and other prophets prophesied about him. Using God's name he healed a lame man, they worshipped him as the Messiah. The Sanhedrin decided to arrest him, and sent messengers to invite him to Jerusalem. They pretended to be his disciples to trick him." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu#Wagenseil_version,_1681
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#22
Jul 7, 2022
10,235
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#22
JJoseph said:
And the practice of referring to God as "G-d" or "Hashem" (means "the Name") came from unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and Rabbis who rejected Jesus Christ. These same Jews, in some of their writings against Christ, bear witness that Jesus Christ Himself used the Name of the Lord Jehovah while quoting from the Torah or Old Testament Scriptures in His Day.

"Yeshu later went to the Jerusalem Temple and learned the letters of God's ineffable name (one could do anything desired by them). He gathered 310 young men and proclaimed himself the Messiah, claiming Isaiah's "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" and other prophets prophesied about him. Using God's name he healed a lame man, they worshipped him as the Messiah. The Sanhedrin decided to arrest him, and sent messengers to invite him to Jerusalem. They pretended to be his disciples to trick him." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu#Wagenseil_version,_1681
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There's a lot of unfortunate idolatry and Jew adoration among some evangelicals. We certainly have no valid reason to look to the Jewish Christ rejecting rabbis for pronouncing God's Name, for Biblical understanding or practice today. I used to have a pastor who visited Israel and got caught up in that foolishness. As you allude to, they have deceived by a number of means.
 
Hakawaka

Hakawaka

Active member
#23
Jul 1, 2021
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#23
FollowerofShiloh said:
Yahveh, is what the ancient Levitical Priests were afraid to pronounce. It's in the Mikvah and Talmud but unless you're a Jew and go through Mishnah most Gentile converted Christians will never know this information.

Best example:
Modern Torah:
3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I made Me not known to them.

The Ancient Scrolls [Mikvah]:
3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God, the Almighty, but by my name The Eternal [YHVH] was I not made known to them.

Most Sofers chose on purpose not to write G-D instead of God or "NN" instead of Yōd-Vav [YHVH] due to fear of unveiling the literal NAME of the LORD GOD.
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We know its Yahweh, but how is it pronounced? Thats the real question. No one knows for sure I guess.

I've also heard the theory that the original name is indeed Jehovah, and that Yahweh was just a scam pulled up by the scholarly circles, as its a canaanite pagan deity according to wikipedia. But then again, who trusts wikipedia?

I just never use either name anyway as im not hebrew
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#24
May 29, 2013
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#24
JJoseph said:
Should the Divine Name Jehovah be restored to Bible versions? The Bible doesn't say, "The Lord is my Shepherd", it says, "Jehovah is my Shepherd". That is how the Lord Jehovah wrote it through His Prophets. It doesn't say, "The Name of the Lord is a a strong tower". It says, "The Name of Jehovah is a strong tower." It doesn't say, "I, even I, am the Lord etc, but Jehovah and beside Me there is no Savior". And Jesus means Jehovah the Savior, as the Angel Gabriel told the Blessed Virgin Mary, "He shall be called Jesus (Jehovah the Savior), because He shall save His People from their sins". Jesus is Jehovah our Savior dwelling among us, our Emmanuel, and made flesh for our sake, to be our Savior.

Thoughts? This Divine Name King James Bible does precisely that, and an increasing number of Bible versions are being more faithful to the original: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-divine-name-king-james-version-makes-more-accurate-wright/

"While some scholars prefer the transliterated pronunciation “Yahweh,” others say the name Jehovah has already been established over centuries and preserves the four consonants of the original Divine Name in English (JHVH). Publishers of this latest effort to restore the Divine Name said, “The base text of the Authorized King James is in the public domain but the exclusive feature of restoring the name Jehovah or Yahweh to the otherwise unmodified content of the base text constitutes an important new literary expression.”
One example given of this “new literary expression” is at Isaiah 42:8 where the Divine Name KJV reads, “I am Jehovah: that is my name.” Numerous translations continue to insert “LORD” or “Lord” where the Divine Name originally appeared, a practice that is being challenged by adherents to more literal translations."
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Except it doesn't really say Jehovah. The Jewish Masoretes out of the vowels under the consonants later. and if you take an introductory Hebrew class and get to the point where you can actually figure out the letter and vowel system you will see that the vowels did not match up with the syllables for the divine name. and according to my professor they put the vowels for Adam and I under the divine name so that people reading would say Adonai instead of the divine name and would not pronounce the divine name.

He also talked about the word Jehovah for the divine name first showing up for 500 years ago from an Italian monk who transliterated it that way you probably didn't understand the Hebrew orthography.

the letter J representing the J sound instead of the Y sound is an English thing also and occurred relatively late in our history and the letter J actually representing the J sound as distinct from the Y sound is also a relatively late English spelling convention.

I should have picked his brain about the V which I think would have been pronounced probably with a U or W sound in Latin.

and there are differences between modern readers and how to pronounce the waw letter in Hebrew as the wgether it's a v sound or a w sound. Bible colleges usually go with a W sound but Ashkenazi Jews usually use a V sound.

the popular view among academics is that the name was pronounced as. this is consistent with the earliest record I know of a discussion of how the name was pronounced which described the Samaritan pronunciation in the 4th Century as I recall. the Greek description of the pronunciation might be transliterated as Yabe, but in modern Greek beta sounds like v, though made with the lips, and from what I have read that pronunciation would have begun to be used around the time this was written. also it seems like to me that if the H sound was pronounced before the waw sound in the divone name that a Greek speaker might not have picked up on it, or emulated it, just as some English speakers don't pick up on these sounds when listening to Arabic or Hebrew. The H sound the sound doesn't show up at the end of syllables and either language (unless Greek had some feature that I don't know about it possibly didn't show up in the writing system.)
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#25
Jul 7, 2022
10,235
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#25
JJoseph said:
And the practice of referring to God as "G-d" or "Hashem" (means "the Name") came from unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and Rabbis who rejected Jesus Christ. These same Jews, in some of their writings against Christ, bear witness that Jesus Christ Himself used the Name of the Lord Jehovah while quoting from the Torah or Old Testament Scriptures in His Day.

"Yeshu later went to the Jerusalem Temple and learned the letters of God's ineffable name (one could do anything desired by them). He gathered 310 young men and proclaimed himself the Messiah, claiming Isaiah's "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" and other prophets prophesied about him. Using God's name he healed a lame man, they worshipped him as the Messiah. The Sanhedrin decided to arrest him, and sent messengers to invite him to Jerusalem. They pretended to be his disciples to trick him." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu#Wagenseil_version,_1681
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Names of God, part 1
 
HealthAndHappiness

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
#26
Jul 7, 2022
10,235
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#26
JJoseph said:
And the practice of referring to God as "G-d" or "Hashem" (means "the Name") came from unbelieving Jews like the Pharisees and Rabbis who rejected Jesus Christ. These same Jews, in some of their writings against Christ, bear witness that Jesus Christ Himself used the Name of the Lord Jehovah while quoting from the Torah or Old Testament Scriptures in His Day.

"Yeshu later went to the Jerusalem Temple and learned the letters of God's ineffable name (one could do anything desired by them). He gathered 310 young men and proclaimed himself the Messiah, claiming Isaiah's "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" and other prophets prophesied about him. Using God's name he healed a lame man, they worshipped him as the Messiah. The Sanhedrin decided to arrest him, and sent messengers to invite him to Jerusalem. They pretended to be his disciples to trick him." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot_Yeshu#Wagenseil_version,_1681
Click to expand...
Here's part 2 of a good thorough study on the subject.

Names of God, part 2
 
J

JJoseph

Member
#27
Jan 6, 2024
45
22
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#27
presidente said:
Except it doesn't really say Jehovah. The Jewish Masoretes out of the vowels under the consonants later. and if you take an introductory Hebrew class and get to the point where you can actually figure out the letter and vowel system you will see that the vowels did not match up with the syllables for the divine name. and according to my professor they put the vowels for Adam and I under the divine name so that people reading would say Adonai instead of the divine name and would not pronounce the divine name.

He also talked about the word Jehovah for the divine name first showing up for 500 years ago from an Italian monk who transliterated it that way you probably didn't understand the Hebrew orthography.

the letter J representing the J sound instead of the Y sound is an English thing also and occurred relatively late in our history and the letter J actually representing the J sound as distinct from the Y sound is also a relatively late English spelling convention.

I should have picked his brain about the V which I think would have been pronounced probably with a U or W sound in Latin.

and there are differences between modern readers and how to pronounce the waw letter in Hebrew as the wgether it's a v sound or a w sound. Bible colleges usually go with a W sound but Ashkenazi Jews usually use a V sound.

the popular view among academics is that the name was pronounced as. this is consistent with the earliest record I know of a discussion of how the name was pronounced which described the Samaritan pronunciation in the 4th Century as I recall. the Greek description of the pronunciation might be transliterated as Yabe, but in modern Greek beta sounds like v, though made with the lips, and from what I have read that pronunciation would have begun to be used around the time this was written. also it seems like to me that if the H sound was pronounced before the waw sound in the divone name that a Greek speaker might not have picked up on it, or emulated it, just as some English speakers don't pick up on these sounds when listening to Arabic or Hebrew. The H sound the sound doesn't show up at the end of syllables and either language (unless Greek had some feature that I don't know about it possibly didn't show up in the writing system.)
Click to expand...
"Some Karaite Jews,[19] as proponents of the rendering Jehovah, state that although the original pronunciation of יהוה has been obscured by disuse of the spoken name according to oral Rabbinic law, well-established English transliterations of other Hebrew personal names are accepted in normal usage, such as Joshua, Jeremiah, Isaiah or Jesus, for which the original pronunciations may be unknown.[19][20] They also point out that "the English form Jehovah is an Anglicized form of Yehovah,"[19] and preserves the four Hebrew consonants "YHVH" (with the introduction of the "J" sound in English).[19][21][22] Some argue that Jehovah is preferable to Yahweh, based on their conclusion that the Tetragrammaton was likely tri-syllabic originally, and that modern forms should therefore also have three syllables.[23]
In an article he wrote in the Journal of Biblical Literature, Biblical scholar Francis B. Dennio said: "Jehovah misrepresents Yahweh no more than Jeremiah misrepresents Yirmeyahu. The settled connotations of Isaiah and Jeremiah forbid questioning their right." Dennio argued that the form Jehovah is not a barbarism, but is the best English form available, being that it has for centuries gathered the necessary connotations and associations for valid use in English.[20]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah
 
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