Art thou He that should come, or look we for another?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#1
And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things. And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? (Luke 7:18-20).

It is entirely possible that many of us (if not all) have wondered – before we were saved -- whether Jesus of Nazareth was truly the Messiah and Savior of the world.

But it is hard to understand how John the Baptist would have any misgivings. After all, He baptized Christ, and saw a miracle at the river Jordon. As a result he proclaimed to all of Israel that Jesus was the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world.

Perhaps John expected Jesus to announce to everyone and say “I am your promised Messiah, and also the Lamb of God which John mentioned”. The Jewish religious leaders had probably hoped for such an announcement, and possibly an attempt by Christ to stop Roman rule in Judea.

But Jesus was a different Messiah at His first coming. So how did Christ calm down John’s fears and doubts? He performed a whole host of miracles before John’s disciples within a very short period. Here is what we read: And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Then Jesus answering said unto them, Goyour way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. (Luke 7:21-23)
At the same time, Christ did not find any fault with John’s doubts and fears? Instead He praised John as the greatest prophet who had ever lived: This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. (Luke 7:27,28).


We see in these statements both the grace and the truth of Christ. So why did Christ make these statements? Firstly, because John was the forerunner of the Son of God. No other prophet had received that privilege. The birth of John (“those that are born among women”) was also miraculous, as was the birth of Christ.

Yet the Lord did not intervene when Herod imprisoned John and then beheaded him. We cannot understand this, but God had a reason for this tragedy. Jesus could have also miraculously raised John from the dead, but He did not do so. No doubt the eternal rewards of John the Baptist (or Baptizer) will be immense. And he is in fact alive in Heaven.

However, what is even more enigmatic is that Christ said that the one who is least in the Kingdom of God is “greater” than John. There is no real explanation for this, unless it means that the children of God who are justified by grace through faith are deemed to be “kings and priests”, while John was only the greatest prophet. Perhaps because the New Covenant was not already in force while John was alive. We really don’t know, so this is purely a guess. Many of the statements of Christ are enigmatic, and we must simply accept that.

What is truly remarkable is the multitude of miracles performed by Christ to ensure that John and his disciples would not have any doubts. And what we read in the Gospels about the daily miracles of Christ should easily convince us that it was God who took the form of Man and became Jesus of Nazareth to die for our sins, then rise again for our justification.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,996
5,671
113
#2
The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:

notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven ( born of God through Christ and the gospel ) is greater than he.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:

John was the last prophet before people began being born again through Christ
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,411
13,754
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#3
I suspect that most of us, not being ethnic Jews, did not wonder at all (prior to hearing the gospel) whether Jesus was the Messiah or the Saviour, because such concepts were alien to us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#4
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist
There is a lot more to this than mentioned in the OP. So we will address just one aspect now, and other aspects later.

1. John the Baptizer was specifically chosen by God make a clear and straight "highway" for the Lord Jesus Christ ("our God"). The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. (Isa 40:3-5)

Mark quoted Isaiah 40:1 and also Malachi 3:1:.The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. (Mark 1:1-3)/

How did John accomplish this? He brought possibly hundred of thousands (maybe 2 million) Jews to repentance, and baptized them for the remission of sins.

The estimated population of Judea at that time was over 2 million. https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat55/sub351/item1384.html#:~:te
The Bible says And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins . (Mark 1:5)

What did John preach? John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. There was no prophet before John who brought possibly two million people to repentance in preparation for the Messiah. This was another aspect of his greatness. Yes the Law and the Prophets were until John, but that does not minimize what he accomplished within the Old Covenant dispensation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#5
I suspect that most of us, not being ethnic Jews, did not wonder at all (prior to hearing the gospel) whether Jesus was the Messiah or the Saviour, because such concepts were alien to us.
That is not really the case. Those who are adherents of other religions (including Judaism) also have their own "messiahs". So they must all wonder if Jesus is the only Savior of the world, and if they refuse to accept that, they remain in their darkness. Even those wo have heard of Christ in so-called "Christian" nations have become Atheists and Agnostics.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,411
13,754
113
#6
That is not really the case. Those who are adherents of other religions (including Judaism) also have their own "messiahs". So they must all wonder if Jesus is the only Savior of the world, and if they refuse to accept that, they remain in their darkness. Even those wo have heard of Christ in so-called "Christian" nations have become Atheists and Agnostics.
Most Western-nation Christians were never adherents of other religions.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,996
5,671
113
#7
There is a lot more to this than mentioned in the OP. So we will address just one aspect now, and other aspects later.

1. John the Baptizer was specifically chosen by God make a clear and straight "highway" for the Lord Jesus Christ ("our God"). The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. (Isa 40:3-5)

Mark quoted Isaiah 40:1 and also Malachi 3:1:.The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. (Mark 1:1-3)/

How did John accomplish this? He brought possibly hundred of thousands (maybe 2 million) Jews to repentance, and baptized them for the remission of sins.

The estimated population of Judea at that time was over 2 million. https://factsanddetails.com/world/cat55/sub351/item1384.html#:~:te
The Bible says And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins . (Mark 1:5)

What did John preach? John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. There was no prophet before John who brought possibly two million people to repentance in preparation for the Messiah. This was another aspect of his greatness. Yes the Law and the Prophets were until John, but that does not minimize what he accomplished within the Old Covenant dispensation.
Yeah what I’m saying is John was never born again in Christs name as a son of God as Christian’s are

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was never born again through Christ is my only point everyone in the kingdom is born again in Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#8
Another reason why John the Baptist is called the greatest prophet by Christ is that he came "in the spirit and power of Elijah". When the angel Gabriel came to Zachariah, the father of John, to announce the miraculous birth of John, here is what he said: And he shall go before Him [Christ] in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (Luke 1:17)

John was not a "reincarnation" of Elijah and he made this quite clear: And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias [Elijah]? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. (John 1:21)

Yet the Lord Jesus Christ presented him as "Elijah", because he was ministering in the spirit and power of Elijah. Christ already knew that the real Elijah would (1) appear at the Transfiguration with Moses (Luke 9:30), and (2) again appear with Moses during the reign of the Antichrist (Rev 11). Nonetheless this is what the Lord said: And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.(Mt 11;14) ... But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. (Mt 17:12,13)

So now we need to see how John resembled Elijah.

1. Elijah confronted Ahab just like John confronted Herod: And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel? And he answered, I have not troubled Israel; but thou, and thy father's house, in that ye have forsaken the commandments of the LORD, and thou hast followed Baalim. (1 Kings 18:17,18)... For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife. Therefore Herodias had a quarrel against him, and would have killed him; but she could not: For Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy, and observed him; and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly. (Mark 6:18-20)

2. Elijah turned many in Israel to the Lord as did John: Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. (1 Kings 18:37-39)... John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. (Mark 1:4,5)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#9
And the disciples of John shewed him of all these things. And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? (Luke 7:18-20).

It is entirely possible that many of us (if not all) have wondered – before we were saved -- whether Jesus of Nazareth was truly the Messiah and Savior of the world.

But it is hard to understand how John the Baptist would have any misgivings. After all, He baptized Christ, and saw a miracle at the river Jordon. As a result he proclaimed to all of Israel that Jesus was the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world.

Perhaps John expected Jesus to announce to everyone and say “I am your promised Messiah, and also the Lamb of God which John mentioned”. The Jewish religious leaders had probably hoped for such an announcement, and possibly an attempt by Christ to stop Roman rule in Judea.

But Jesus was a different Messiah at His first coming. So how did Christ calm down John’s fears and doubts? He performed a whole host of miracles before John’s disciples within a very short period. Here is what we read: And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Then Jesus answering said unto them, Goyour way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me. (Luke 7:21-23)
At the same time, Christ did not find any fault with John’s doubts and fears? Instead He praised John as the greatest prophet who had ever lived: This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. (Luke 7:27,28).


We see in these statements both the grace and the truth of Christ. So why did Christ make these statements? Firstly, because John was the forerunner of the Son of God. No other prophet had received that privilege. The birth of John (“those that are born among women”) was also miraculous, as was the birth of Christ.

Yet the Lord did not intervene when Herod imprisoned John and then beheaded him. We cannot understand this, but God had a reason for this tragedy. Jesus could have also miraculously raised John from the dead, but He did not do so. No doubt the eternal rewards of John the Baptist (or Baptizer) will be immense. And he is in fact alive in Heaven.

However, what is even more enigmatic is that Christ said that the one who is least in the Kingdom of God is “greater” than John. There is no real explanation for this, unless it means that the children of God who are justified by grace through faith are deemed to be “kings and priests”, while John was only the greatest prophet. Perhaps because the New Covenant was not already in force while John was alive. We really don’t know, so this is purely a guess. Many of the statements of Christ are enigmatic, and we must simply accept that.

What is truly remarkable is the multitude of miracles performed by Christ to ensure that John and his disciples would not have any doubts. And what we read in the Gospels about the daily miracles of Christ should easily convince us that it was God who took the form of Man and became Jesus of Nazareth to die for our sins, then rise again for our justification.
John had no understanding of the cross. He, like all other Jews, was looking forward to the Messiah who would deliver Israel from its enemies and restore the kingdom of Israel. Even after the resurrection, the disciples were asking and anticipating the restoration of the kingdom of Israel. For John, he questioned it because he was in prison and about to be executed.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#10
John had no understanding of the cross. He, like all other Jews
If what you say is true, how could John say this twice: The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world... Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! (John 1:29,35,36)

Do you seriously think that John -- whose father was a priest -- did not understand that lambs were sacrificed daily, and had to shed their innocent blood to make atonement for sins? John knew for a fact that Jesus was the Son of God. And do you think that John did not know Isaiah 53, and Psalm 16, Psalm 22, and Psalm 69? And do you seriously think that God did not give John insight into how Christ would be sacrificed?

Since God directly sent John to preach in the wilderness, and John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, it is more than likely that John knew a lot more than is stated in Scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#11
John was never born again through Christ is my only point everyone in the kingdom is born again in Christ
Those who are born again must be regenerated by the Holy Ghost. But John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, and he did not need to be regenerated. Only those who have a dead spirit must be regenerated. But if a man is filled with the Holy Spirit, his spirit is very much alive.

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.(Luke 1:15,16)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,996
5,671
113
#12
Those who are born again must be regenerated by the Holy Ghost. But John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, and he did not need to be regenerated. Only those who have a dead spirit must be regenerated. But if a man is filled with the Holy Spirit, his spirit is very much alive.

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.(Luke 1:15,16)
Those who are born again must be regenerated by the Holy Ghost. But John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, and he did not need to be regenerated.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3, 5-6‬ ‭

“For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:28‬ ‭

The least person in the kingdom is greater than John but of those born of the flesh none is greater

Yes John was filled with the holy ghost from the womb , he was never baptized into Christs name for remission of his sins never born again

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ( John never was )

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:( John never was ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”( never born again to live free in Christ John lives under the law )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, ( shortly after he was beheaded ) Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No one can enter his kingdom but through the gospel of his kingdom and believing . John has his place and role tbat of Elijah’s prophesied coming forth to announce the messiahs arrival when the kingdom was offered john is important he’s not a member of the body of Christ however that only happens through the gospel and baptism in his name for the remission of sin

John is like Isaiah , or Malachi he’s an Old Testament prophet the last one actually who preached of the messiah before his coming

Have to be born again to be king to the kingdom meaning need to die with Christ for sin and be raised with him through faith

buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John isnt part of this group it’s why it tells us “ whoever is the very least in the kingdom , is greater than John even though John is greater than anyone born of flesh he was never born again as a child of God n Christ the son

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John belongs to God he’s part of Israel’s remnant and the firstfruits to God raised with Christ
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
113
#13
If what you say is true, how could John say this twice: The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world... Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! (John 1:29,35,36)

Do you seriously think that John -- whose father was a priest -- did not understand that lambs were sacrificed daily, and had to shed their innocent blood to make atonement for sins? John knew for a fact that Jesus was the Son of God. And do you think that John did not know Isaiah 53, and Psalm 16, Psalm 22, and Psalm 69? And do you seriously think that God did not give John insight into how Christ would be sacrificed?

Since God directly sent John to preach in the wilderness, and John was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb, it is more than likely that John knew a lot more than is stated in Scripture.
The cross was hid from the foundation of the world. Scripture may elude to the suffering of the coming one, but the understanding was hidden. Christ told of his d,b,r but the understanding was hidden.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,411
13,754
113
#14
The cross was hid from the foundation of the world. Scripture may elude to the suffering of the coming one, but the understanding was hidden. Christ told of his d,b,r but the understanding was hidden.
Psst... allude.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,773
113
#16
Are you suggesting that being born again and being regenerated are two separate events?
No, I am not. What I am saying is that in order to be born again (regenerated) a natural man needs the gift of the Holy Spirit first.

The New Birth is supernatural and it is brought about by God the Holy Spirit. But since John the Baptist already had the Holy Spirit, even since before he was born, the question of regeneration was moot. PilgrimsHope said that he was never born again, equating him with everyone else. Neither was Christ born again.