Loss of salvation???

You stated the following.

There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say and "destruction" doesn't always mean the lake of fire.

I see 'destruction' and the 'lake of fire' as identical.

Can you explain the difference for me?

Go next door and cause a ruckus. Have you destroyed their peace?

Moses destroyed his opportunity to enter the promised land.

If you can only see the lake of fire when you see the word "destroy", you will miss much.

Jesus said He came to give life and give it abundantly. (Jn.10:10) The life He gives is one of peace (as one example of abundant life). How many Christians do you know who are not at peace but are fearful and worried about things? I know quite a few. How many believers do you know who are filled with resentment and bitterness or unforgiving? I know some. Do you think the life Christ has given us is not destroyed in these cases? Of course it is. And I am not speaking of those who know these things are wrong and struggle to overcome but those who know and refuse to die to self in these particular areas.

I could list many ways a Christian destroys the life we have in Christ. The road to life is strict and narrow. It is not simply a reference to eternal life and the Resurrection but life as it is lived in this world.

Look at the previous verse you quoted earlier. Don't you think if destruction only meant the lake of fire that here would be a very good place to mention the "shrinkers" will face eternal damnation? Afterall, our eternal state is crucial is it not? Yet, it simply says God will not be happy with them. You were a child once, did your earthly father become unhappy with you from time to time? Yet he didn't disown you did he?

Heb.10:38
Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

There is a serious difference in the way we read and understand the scripture.

I asked you to explain the difference between 'destruction' and the 'lake of fire'.

I see 'destruction' and the 'lake of fire' as identical.

Galatians 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will reap destruction from the flesh, but
the one who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life from the Spirit.

Philippians 1:28
And in no way alarmed by your opponents, which is a sign of destruction for them,
but of salvation for you, and this too, from God.

Philippians 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame,
who have their minds on earthly things.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord
and from the glory of His power.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

We can agree on that.

Your verses in context.

Gal.6:8 says the corruption comes from the flesh, not the eternal flame. Not surprisingly, the flesh is self-serving.
Phil.1:28. Destruction is for the opponents (ie.unbelievers). Hardly surprising unbelievers will end up in the eternal flame.
Phil.3:19 You automatically see the eternal fire because you see the word "destruction" but as I have explained you can destroy the life God has given us by not walking according to His plan. Many believers destroy the joy and peace they could have because they refuse to learn to be content in all things. In this particular verse, these are Christians living on the basis of how they "feel" (belly is a euphemism for emotions) about things rather than what the word of God says.
2Thess.1:9 Look at verse 8. These are ones who do not "obey the Gospel". IOW unbelievers.
Heb.12:14 Do you not know your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit? All believers have been sanctified because they are in Christ. The Father would not give His Son an unclean thing. (1.Cor.1:2 and note: the behaviour of the Corinthians did not determine their "sainthood", God's work in the gift of salvation determines our holiness)

You are in denial of the doctrine of Godliness.

Galatians 5: 19-21
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity,
indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger,
selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these,
of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things
will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Corinthians 1 5:5.

Rubbish and what happened to your policy of not getting personal?

And those who practice (continuously as per the language) are they believers?

Only believers cannot lose what God has given them, unbelievers never had the gift of salvation to begin with.

You judge on appearance, not the word of God.

I'll take a swipe at this one, not doctrinally (you guys seem to have covered that quite well) but with my own personal testimony of the grace and mercy of Almighty God.

I met Christ at 23. My conversion was quite dramatic. Picture the worst person you can imagine, and then imagine him completely changed overnight, that was me.

Christ did a remarkable work in my life. I was so grateful, and everyone I met heard about it, everyone. All I ever talked about was what the Lord had done for me. I was zealous for the Gospel and zealous for good works. I found a great church and was very active in the ministry. This continued for probably a couple of years. Unfortunately my church turned out not to be as great as I thought. I won't bore you with the details, but they did me great harm, which led to a series of cascading events culminating in my leaving the church, and eventually the break up of my family.

Once it finally hit me what I had done, and the consequences of my actions, and it didn't take long, I was overwhelmed with regret and sorrow. Over the years I slipped deeper into sin. In fact, as sinful as I was when I met Christ, I had became even worse. This continued for just over three decades.

Alcohol, drugs, sexual immorality, anger, depression, multiple failed marriages, idolatry, indecency, spiritual deception, you get the idea. Through all of these struggles, I never denied Christ, I still shared the Gospel on occasion, I tried to be an honest person and a good dad to my kids. But I absolutely was not walking with Christ. I held on to my faith somewhat, but I did not study, did not pray, and though I tried many times, found no place for repentance. The bottom line is, my sins were over my head, I could not approach God. My guilt and shame made it practically impossible. I desired a relationship with Christ, I just couldn't make it happen. The something worse that Christ spoke of, had become my reality.

I did so much damage, and mainly to those I cared about the most. It's hard not to share this without weeping. But that is a recent development. I've never been a crybaby, that all changed about 18 months ago. My wife at that time wrecked her truck and almost died, a couple months later she left me. I thought at the time that He spared her life because she was not ready to meet him. Eventually I concluded that He spared her life because I was not ready to meet Him. If she had died, I would have grieved somewhat (my marriage was hell) and then replaced her with another just like her, dangerous women had been a pattern in my life. But she left me instead, and I needed answers. So after 30 years of running away, I turned back to Christ. I had no where else to go.

Please bare with me, I don't know how to tell this story briefly.

In the 30 years that I lived as the prodigal son, I had only really prayed 3 times. Those of you who know what real prayer is will understand this. The first time was after my grandfather died and my grandmother was in the hospital soon to join him. I called out to God for a very long time. I questioned His love for me, I questioned my salvation, I wanted answers. I got none. After what might have been an hour or more of exhausting prayer, in sorrowful silence upon my knees, I heard these words spoken within my heart, "My grace is sufficient for you."
I cried out in reply, Is that all you've got to say to me?
More silence, apparently it was. Nothing changed for me that day, but I never forgot what had been spoken to me, I never will.

Many years later I was at work and I heard the Lord speak again to my heart, "Pray for your son." I knew it was the Lord, and I immediately began to pray for my son. I didn't know why or even what I was praying over, so I prayed for his life and safety. I found out a few days later that he had been attacked and brutally beaten and almost died at the precise hour that I was calling out to God on his behalf. I was grateful and even hopeful, but again, nothing changed in my life.

Moving forward another several years, maybe five, I was again at work and had stopped (I'm a professional driver) to take a quick break. I reached back into my bunk for a bottle of water when it was as if someone grabbed me by the wrist and pulled me to my knees. I began to cry out to God in a way I had maybe never done before. I confessed my many sins for what seemed like a very long time. I wept before His throne until I could weep and pray and confess no more. I said to the Lord, "I don't know what else I could possibly confess. The Lord said to me, " Give me a minute." That minute turned into another half hour or so, in which God revealed to me not only the depth, but the breadth of my transgressions against Him.
Sin is deceitful my brothers and sisters, make your calling and election sure.

This time, I had changed. In fact, I hadn't been so full of joy and hope since first knowing Him so many years before. But this new found hope was short lived. I called my wife who is supposed to be a believer herself to tell her all about it, my daughter too. But they couldn't relate. And my wife began to undermine my newfound repentance the moment I arrived at home. And she succeeded.

I slipped back into my old ways and the next two years leading up to her wreck were living hell.

Which brings me to the present. "To see ones own sins, and to weep over them, the man who has this blessing has everything." I don't know who made this statement, but I can attest to it's truthfulness. Unless we are able to see the fullness of our sin, we cannot experience the fullness of Gods grace. Those who are forgiven much, love much. I'm walking with Christ again, it's not a perfect walk, far from it. But Christ's love for me is a perfect love, and His grace is truly sufficient.

I will probably never shake the feelings of regret for the choices that I made, the sorrow over the sins that I have sinned. Nor could I count the tears I've cried in this last year over these sins or the prodigal (wasteful) life I've lived. But neither could I number the tears I've cried, often simultaneously, as I behold Christ at the right hand of the Father interceding on my behalf.

In summation. If you had met me at anytime during this long period of my prodigal wanderings, you may have judged me unfit, unredeemed and unworthy, and I could not fault you for doing so. But you would have been terribly mistaken.

For every scripture posted in this thread about the dangers of falling away, I could point you to a scripture about the wonders of Gods grace.

To my backslidden brothers and sisters who may be wondering and worrying if maybe they have sinned too big, for too long, or wandered too far from the grace and mercy of Almighty God, I refer you to Psalm 139.

Christ is your salvation. Christ is your sanctification.
Christ is your Good Shepherd, and the Lover of Your Soul.

The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, you cannot flee from the Spirit of God. Even if it feels like you are in the very depths of hell. Christ is there. He has never left you, He will never forsake you. He will not lose any whom the Father has given to Him. You are safe, you are loved, you are seated with Him at the right hand of the Father.

For those of you who are merely seekers and have not yet known the joy of the Lord, this is the love that you've been searching for. Surrender to His love. Harden not your hearts. Receive the free gifts of repentance and faith, and commit yourself to understanding and doing His will. And you will be eternally saved, eternally secure. Diligently seek His face, and you will be greatly rewarded for doing so, in this life and in the next.

So, no. You cannot lose your salvation. Christ is the Author and the Finisher of your faith. Christ is your Salvation. We are saved by grace (which leads to repentance) through faith (which leads us to Christ), not of yourself, but this is the gift of God.

This has nothing to do with what I “think” and more to do with what the Bible teaches. If you could provide some Scriptures to show I am wrong in my interpretation of these verses we are discussing or others you’d like to examine, Id be happy to do that.

God has given us free with all agency to choose. That doesn’t stop when we become Christian. This isnt about what God can do, but what he has determined to do. In my reading of Scripture, he has chosen to give us freedom of choice. God, out of his love, could also stop every drunk driver from tragically ending the life of other motorists, but he allows us to make choices. Sometimes those choices have tragic consequences. He didn’t compel Israel to abide by his Law when he made his covenant with them, even though they were His special chosen people. And, as far as I can see in Scripture, we have the ability to resist the Holy Spirit. God gives us all we need to live a godly and sanctified life in Christ. However, not all choose to do so. This is not God’s inability to sanctify us, but human choice to follow the flesh rather than the Spirit. I think Romans 8 explains this very clearly.

Those who have faith keep their souls safe. Those who shrink back follow the path to destruction. The author believes these Hebrews will choose faith over shrinking back.

Thank you for your story. I am sure that was hard to share. I am grateful that God’s mercy has abounded toward you throughout your wandering. I hope you never have read in my posts that God gives up on us. I don’t believe this is the case. I do believe he allows us to choose, as you have chosen…both to wander and to repent. I do not believe God wants us to live in guilt.

So, I hope your conscience is clear and you have confidence that the blood of Christ is sufficient to cleanse not only your sin but purify your conscience so you can serve him without shame of the past. The old is gone, and the new has come. But all of this comes by faith. Faith that Christ is sufficient for you, and that because of that blood, when God sees you, He sees you in light of Christ’s perfection. Yet, I maintain that faith is necessary to lay hold of those promises. I dont pretend to know the status of any person’s salvation in relation to the matters we are discussing. I only know that we are called to examine our own faith and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. God’s love and mercy are beyond imagination. Although, as you mentioned, sin is deceptive and immensely dangerous for our personal lives as well as our to the hardening of our hearts. I dont know where that line is where a person has wandered to the point they are no longer able or willing to repent. But it does seem evident that this possibility is real. This is what Scripture warns us about.

In any event, keep fighting the good fight brother. God is with you and I am confident that the fruit He can and will bear in your life will far exceed the years the locusts have eaten. Grace and peace.

Thank you for sharing your story. It mirrors the path of others who have wandered, then ran from God. It is far easier to let God lead us, yet many of us (Me included) have a stubborn pride that thinks we can do as we please.

I think it was David who said, “Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me, and the light about me be night,” ...

Give us a break. It has everything to do with what you think because you think the Bible teaches you can lose your salvation. The implication of your statement is only you know what it is really teaching and I don't.

Show you scripture? The very Romans 8 scriptures you quote show God has made the believer alive and they are alive on the basis of the indwelling Spirit, not on the basis of their walk. You seem to confuse being "in the flesh" (unsaved) and "walking after the flesh" (failing to walk by grace). A believer can "walk after the flesh" but that does not mean he dies again. He cannot die. (Jn.3:18)

Rom.8:9-11
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Everyone who is saved has the Spirit of God in them and belongs to Christ. Therefore, whether they walk according to God's plan (in Spirit and truth) or not they belong to Christ and are guaranteed to be raised.

It is everything about what God can do and indeed has done. We did not choose to be saved, we do not choose to stay saved. We choose to walk in obedience to the truth but whether we are faithful or not, God remains faithful.

You need to stop assuming because a believer fails to live the godly life that they have received, that God will act like a man and take back what He gave because the believer wasn't "good enough".

People who assert one can loose their salvation should not be really using the word SAVED.

but they should use quasi-saved, maybe-saved, interim-saved, wait and see-saved, preserver-saved, or hopefully-saved, 50-50 saved (lol) etc.,

imho

Salvation is a permanent, singular event, both in time and in eternity, or it is nothing, there is no in-between.

There are three senses in which we are saved. We are saved from the penalty of sin in what most people think of as saved. It is a definite point in time when whatever else one believes we become partakers of the divine nature and indwelt by the Holy Spirit. We are also now presently being saved from the power of sin. This is an ongoing process most call sanctification. And one day we will be saved from the presence of sin in the eternal estate.

David expresses his trust in God's ability (His right hand) to pull him out of anything he might find himself ending up in, even death.

Psalm 139

Justification
Sanctification
Glorification

You are struggling now and that is obvious.

You are under the impression that folk who practice the deeds of the flesh,
Galatians 5:19-20. Are not believers and magically cannot pursue holiness
and love.

Was the letter to the Galatians addressed to the church in Galatia, believers
I would assume?

Paul gave the Galatian believers a stern warning regarding walking in the spirit.

You are ignoring the warnings Paul gave to every church.

We must endure everything that is hurled against us.

You must reject your own personal passions and desires.

Here is a simple example from the Scripture demonstrating what falling away means.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law;
you have fallen from grace.

What strong language Paul is using in this warning to the believers in Galatia, the church.

"severed from Christ"

"fallen from grace"

Make no mistake, you are saved eternally, if and only if, you listen to the Holy Spirit.