Loss of salvation???

There are apparently two NT Greek words translated "begotten". Here is the first (gennáō):


Here is Louw-Nida's definition and one verse for each way it is used:

Here is Louw-Nida's definition/explanation of the second one (monogenḗs):


This is an interesting study.

Yes, Jesus declared, "Before Abraham was, I Am."

With regard to the "loss of salvation" topic
1Corinthians 15:23 speaks of the resurrection
The Order of Resurrection
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ the firstfruits; then at His coming, those who belong to Him.
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

And Galatians 4 speaks of His being "born of a woman"
Sons and Heirs
1What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he is the owner of everything. 2He is subject to guardians and trustees until the date set by his father.
3So also, when we were children, we were enslaved under the basic principlesa of the world. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive our adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, you are also an heir through God.

"...that we might receive our adoption as sons...also an heir through God" And the order of resurrection reveals those wo belong to Him will be made alive at His coming (but the rest of the "so in Christ all will be made alive" dead will not be raised until the end of the thousand years. But I assume that I lose most people here by triggering a knee jerk reaction of, "That's not how you should read that!" However, if indeed that is the actual intention of the author that it should be read, then the implication is that no one can "lose their salvation" while they yet have breath in their body to proclaim, "Jesus is Lord," all the way up until the point of death, or falling asleep, awaiting the resurrection, have the state on is in, whether in Christ or out, determine which resurrection, either the blessed first or the resurrection to the second death, that one finds themself.

*I started writing this last night and left off with an intention to include the consideration for implication of Hebrew's 6's 'impossibility to restore one if he should fall away'... but found myself at a loss for adequate time to devote to the consideration.

But, tysm! @NewLifeInChrist for the added insight and reminding me of the subject or I might have abandoned it.

I have to go again tho, but will add when I can give my undivided attention to the subject. GBAKY

Precious friend, so I should overlook The Biblical Fact, Under God's Grace
( Unmerited Favor ), That States Specifically For God's Eternal Salvation:

+
+ Also Overlook?:

A Multitude Of Plain And Clear Scriptures Confirming Sound Doctrine Of
The ALL-Sufficiency Of The Precious BLOOD Of The Wonderful Saviour:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Thus:
If you purchased your own salvation yourSELF, then you can "give it up,"
Christ's Precious BLOOD being INsufficient for you, eh?

Amen.

Again, I think there is a real tendency in this discussion from some to use metaphor in ways that stretch them beyond what they actually are intending to say. Yes, Jesus purchased us. Yes, Jesus redeemed us. This doesn’t mean that someone who ceases to trust and believe him cannot fall away. Scripture explicitly says it is possible to fall, drift, grow hardened, etc. I mean, if I use this same type of interpretation method, I could claim universalism is true. After all, Scripture says that Jesus died for the world. Doesn’t this mean his blood is “all-sufficient” and if he died “for the world” does that mean his precious blood was wasted, eh?

Scripture needs to be examined in its context. The metaphors have meaning in relation to their context. Paul is not making an argument for “once saved, always saved” in these contexts. Rather, he is referring to the obligation the Christian has to serve the one who bought them.

I encourage you to consider the below passage. I included the context to show you that it is, in fact, speaking to Christians. These warnings have actual meaning. I agree with you that Christ’s blood is precious. That is why it is so dangerous to turn away from it.

Yet, in the Hebrew 10 passage, not a single word about eternal fires only about judgement and punishment of His people who He has sanctified and His faithfulness to keep His promise.

I suppose you think Israel has no future either?

Boggles my mind how anyone can think they can undo what God has done by their own works.

Matthew 13:21
Yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or
persecution occurs because of the word, immediately he falls away.

Matthew 24:10
And at that time many will fall away, and they will betray one another and
hate one another.

Galatians 5:4
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law;
you have fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith,
paying attention to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

Hebrews 3:12
Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil,
unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

Hebrews 4:11
Therefore let’s make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by
following the same example of disobedience.

Hebrews 6:6
And then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they
again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Revelation 2:5
Therefore, remember from where you have fallen, and repent, and do the deeds
you did at first; or else I am coming to you and I will remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

Certainly, it looks like falling away from Jesus is a real event, regardless of any interpretation
that states otherwise.

Yes, falling from the life, the new and living way, He has given us. You are in Christ (as opposed to being dead in sin) and the One who put you there is faithful to keep you there even if you are the most unruly child He has.

None of us can change what God has done.

I asked Chatgpt to just read the text of the letter to the Hebrews.

Without any interpretation, no theology, just the text.

Can a Christian fall away from the belief in Jesus Christ.

Here is what the text states.

In conclusion, the letter to the Hebrews does present the concept of falling away
as a valid and serious concern. The text itself repeatedly warns believers against drifting away,
having an unbelieving heart, neglecting salvation, and deliberately sinning after receiving
knowledge of the truth. It also discusses the impossibility of restoration for those who have
experienced spiritual blessings but then fall away. These passages reflect the author's concern
for the perseverance of faith and the consequences of apostasy within the Christian community.

There is no doubt that the warnings in Hebrews regarding drifting away are valid.

So why would the author of Hebrews bother to mention falling away, if a Christian
cannot fall away?

Did you not read what I said? You can fall away but it is not falling from the salvation God has given us, the new spiritual life we have in Christ. It is failing to live that life as God intended. We are meant to be led of the Spirit and walk by means of God's grace but we can walk after our own flesh and by means of works. That is how Christians fall away and when one does that they come under discipline, first warnings, then a cuff under the ear, then a spanking, then, if you're really bad, God takes you home, it is called the "sin unto death" as found in 1 John.

1 John 5:16
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.


You can't keep ignoring all the verses that show the fidelity of God to not rescind His promises and what He begins, He finishes.

You have been made alive in Christ. There is no sin you can commit that can undo what God has done and you can't keep assuming because someone "walks away from the faith" they were saved to begin with. Is God stupid? Of course not! He doesn't make one alive and give them to His most beloved Son those He knows would ultimately reject Him. You can reject certain truths (like you are rejecting that you can't lose your salvation) but that doesn't make you dead in sin. Those whom God has made alive cannot be, under any and all circumstances, be made spiritually dead again. They can live as if they are (led of their flesh and by works), but they cannot die again.

If people just got their eyes off of themselves and unto God they would see how secure their salvation is and we wouldn't have to keep hashing this out.

You can discard all the personal remarks such as the one below.

You can't keep ignoring all the verses that show the fidelity of God to not rescind His promises and what He begins...

If you read my previous post I concentrated only on the letter to the Hebrews. So that
an interpretation would not be imposed on the text.

That's why I did that, Hebrews only.

There is no doubt that the author of the letter to the Hebrews was warning of the possibility
of apostasy by the Hebrews. Do not drift away.

You know as well as I know and Chatgpt knows also, the literal reading of Hebrews only.
That apostasy is a real event and the author warned the Hebrews about that.

To attach any other verse from any other letter in the N.T. To nullify the warning in
Hebrews regarding apostasy is a very serious matter. It is down right deception.

I will ask you again, is apostasy a valid warning given to the Hebrews based on
the letter to the Hebrews?

Then stop treating me as if I have never said falling away is a real thing.

And I've told you falling away from living the life God has given us is real and I might add a terrible thing to do because you will come under discipline and as the Hebrews writer so rightly pointed out, to fall into God's hands due to disobedience is a fearful thing.

Yes, and you went to a robot to get an answer. And did even that robot make any mention of eternal flame or loss of your spiritual life? No? So why must you insist on it? You stick to one passage so as not to enforce any one particular interpretation but then proceed to make it say one thing.

If you want to understand then you need to inquire of the whole counsel of God.

I've told you it is, why won't you listen?

Apostasy: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith.

To fall away from Jesus is apostasy.

The author of Hebrews warned the Hebrews to not trample underfoot Jesus Christ.

That is apostasy and that cannot denied.

The discipline of a disciple by Jesus has nothing to do with apostasy.

Make no mistake regarding the letter to the Hebrews.

The author was not talking about correcting a sinful way.

The author was warning about apostasy from Jesus Himself.

You seem to combine corrective discipline with apostasy, that's a mistake.

I read your posts and they are faulty.

And so you think walking after the flesh and working out your salvation by means of works isn't apostasy? It is a very real scenario any Christian can fall into.

First, I dont think you understand the Biblical concept of a “covenant.” A covenant is an agreement by two parties. God is always faithful to his end of the covenant. Yet that doesn’t mean that human beings are, or have been. We may be faithless but God is not. This doesn’t mean that we do not have to keep our end of the covenant. It just means that even when humanity fails to abide by their end of the covenant, God continues to be faithful to his end of the covenant. A marriage is a good example of this (and is often used by God as a metaphor about His covenant in the OT). A wife or husband can be faithful to their end of the covenant they made on their wedding day. I will love, cherish, protect, etc…. Yet this doesn’t mean the other spouse can be faithless, cheat, run off or file for divorce. God continues to keep his promise when his people break his heart. When they return, he accepts them according to HIS promise. However, this does not mean we are incapable of being faithless or filing for divorce. A husband who cheats on his wife and divorces her is not an indication of her not being faithful or keeping her promise. In fact, she can still love her husband in spite of his wickedness, yet if he chooses to divorce, he has the agency to do so.

The same is true with our relationship with God. A person’s faithlessness or filing for divorce from God does not mean he is faithless or unable to keep his promise. It is not a reflection on him, but that person’s wickedness. To suggest the idea that a person can be faithless and turn away from Christ is somehow me arguing that God is incapable of keeping his promise or remain faithful is very confusing to me. I dont know how you can come to that conclusion.

In fact, Paul makes this very argument in Romans regarding if God’s promises failed because most of his fellow Israelites were rejecting Christ as the Messiah. He writes,

Paul’s point here is that because many Israelites failed to believe (and thus be saved) is NOT and indication that God’s Word has failed. He goes on to make two points: First, Gentiles are being grafted into Abraham’s lineage by faith, and second, there always has, and still is, a faithful remnant of Israel.

The point here remains. Someone’s failure to be saved or be faithful to Jesus is not a failure on God’s part. God’s plan is still working out as He intended and he is faithful to His promises even if people do not believe or do not persist in their faith.

Let me add one more thing about the nature of these covenants and God’s faithfulness. In the first covenant, God’s agreement with his people was that if they obeyed His Law and followed His precepts, He would be their God and they would be His people. He would protect them, guide them and establish them in the land He promised Abraham. However, if they did not follow their end of the covenant, He would cast them out of the land, and they would bring curses on themselves, etc.

The New Covenant is different. In this covenant, God tell us that he will fulfill all of the righteous requirements of the Law on our behalf and he would be our God and we would be his people. We will be saved from our sins and raised up on the last day to live in the new heavens and new earth, the heavenly Jerusalem. The only thing required of us is to put our faith in Jesus. That’s IT! It’s good news. We dont have to follow the law, obey the precepts of the first covenant because we were unable to meet those requirements in our sinful nature. So God did all of that for us in Christ. We are called only to believe.

So, if someone ceases to believe in Jesus, that is a failure on OUR end of the covenant, not God’s. This is why the author of Hebrews writes,

And THIS is why he warns them to grow in their faith and become more mature so they don’t “fall away“ (cf. Heb. 6:1-8). So again, this has nothing to do with God’s faithfulness, but ours. If you stop believing in Jesus and become Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist or whatever…it’s not God’s failure to keep his end of the New Covenant, but yours. The same is true with any believer. This is why we are encouraged to grow in our faith. This is why we are warned about spiritual immaturity. This is why Peter says,

How do you read the following verse?

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not among those who shrink back to destruction, but of those
who have faith for the safekeeping of the soul.

And yet you keep insisting you can undo what God has done by failing to keep your end of the "bargain".

Please tell me how one can evict the Holy Spirit from one's body an act, I might add, that "seals the deal" of God's promise.
How does one make oneself dead in sin again after being made alive in Christ?

You seem to think you can simply walk away from Jesus and God will say "Oh, nothing I can do about that, they will undo what I have done."

I can only assume you have no idea what God did to you when He saved you.

Precious friend, it must be Way Too Much work for them to study The
Whole Counsel of God, eh?:

God's OPERATION On All New-born babes In Christ!
+ Updates: (of # 11) + (of #14)
+
God's Eternal Life Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Amen.

I have explained this already but one more time. The just live by faith. (the verse before v.38) It's a new and living way we have been given to walk in (Heb10:20) because we are a brand new never seen before creation (2Cor.5:17).

Those who fail to live by faith (those who shrink back) which, is the truth (Christ is the truth) lived out in the believers life, end up destroying the life they have been given. The life God has given us, cannot die (Jn.11:26), is led by the Spirit of God (Rom.8:14), overcomes sin and evil (1Jn.5:5), is one of love, joy, peace etc (Gal.5:22) and is the only life that pleases God in which He delights (Heb.10:38).

If it were not for the faithfulness of God, all of us would lose our salvation for none of us are perfected in the faith. Yet there are those who find living the truth too hard and shrink back to the detriment of their soul.

The writer had just reminded them of their early days (10:32) how they had persevered through great struggle and persecution and so reminds them they are not of the type to shrink back but are of the type to persevere and therefore will go on to mature in their faith producing the fruit and life worthy of God's high calling.

There's more than one way to skin a cat as they say and "destruction" doesn't always mean the lake of fire.

I have to wonder what sort of God you think our Father is if you think He takes back from His most precious Son those He gave Him. Not to mention how hard one would have to struggle to extricate themself from Christ's grip. Who's the stronger man?

John 6:37
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Don't be too hard on them, the Church in general hasn't been the best teacher over the millennia. The Church has been faithful in saying we should live right but not so great saying how we do that. It's hard finding a pastor who can teach the in depth details and mechanics of how we have faith and live the Christian life.