Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

More info than I just responded to.

Paul uses "adelphos" 133 times in the manuscript I just searched. It looks like you've got your work cut out for you to prove that he uses it to speak to Hebrews. There's also his teaching that there is no Jew or Greek in Christ, so it seems a tough sell at this point.

Agree, and I think we've seen some similar nonsense in this thread.

I was doing some things this a.m. that provided for some time to plug in someone's teaching Rom1. He was making the point of how some personalities cannot seem to just let Scripture say what it says and come up with all kinds of philosophies and creative thoughts and how these just end up being more suppression of truth per 1:18. It somehow sounded very familiar...

Wow, yes, it is more suppression of truth ultimately.

I have no definitive understanding really, not sure that "wait" is a time thing but just thinking from my experience and other scripture it connects to being a state of "rest and trusting Him, having confidence that God will see a person through.

I am sure there is more considering it is stated in scripture often.

Ah, so! This answers my earlier question, thank you. I was at a loss as to why you couldn't answer me directly, but now I see that you "try your best to avoid them." I will keep your preference in mind and refrain from causing you such unnecessary exertion any further.

We have a tendency, even as Christians, to decide for ourselves and go our own way. Waiting on the Lord is simply waiting for God to make plain what we should do. And the only way to know how God is leading is to be in an intimate relationship with Him wherein you can distinguish His voice and see what He is doing.

So true! Like all those who believe that the natural man's will is free to choose to believe prior to being made alive in Christ. Especially given the fact that according to the explicit teaching of Scripture, his will is taken captive by the devil and he is hostile in his mind toward God.

He has been banned, as I read further I am thinking he was teaching some Hebrew Israelite thing.

You can't live out truth outside of your temporal reality. The proof of your belief is how you live. Part of this is how you respond to the happenings of life.
What do you believe it means to wait on the Lord?

This is a thought-provoking question.

In my opinion, waiting on God entails involving God in all of your plans and decisions. You ask Him for guidance. You seek Him for direction. You never ever leave Him out of your life.

Do you recall how foolish Joshua was to make a covenant with the Gibeonites in the book of Joshua? And yet the LORD fought for Israel. This was divine intervention!

Joshua 9:14-15: Then the men of Israel took some of their provisions; but they did not ask counsel of the LORD. So Joshua made peace with them, and made a covenant with them to let them live; and the rulers of the congregation swore to them.

10:7-8: So Joshua ascended from Gilgal, he and all the people of war with him, and all the mighty men of valor. And the LORD said to Joshua, "Do not fear them, for I have delivered them into your hand; not a man of them shall stand before you."

Sure, if you’d like to share.

Okay...I'll share and keep the post at no worse than a PG level.

The Lord found me and called me nearly 45 years ago. I was not a religious person at all. But I had attended Catholic schools up to 2nd year high, and then was done with Catholicism. I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist per se -- but more of an agnostic who simply lived life like there was no God. Just another one of billions of Practical Atheists, even though philosophically I didn't subscribe. I would describe myself, however, as a card-carrying hedonist who lived life with gusto. I worked as hard as I partied and my motto was pretty much, "Let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we all die." I didn't marry until after my conversion so I was not restrained in my sex life either.

45 years ago, I was at a low ebb in my life. I came down with a liver disease that the allopathic medical community wasn't able to fix. After almost a year out of work, I found an alternative-natural medicine source that finally put me on the right track. But I had lost a very good paying job because of my prolonged illness -- but even so had sufficient resources to weather the storm and to even party hearty at home when friends would come over. And I was a big pothead! And pretty popular.

Then one night when I was literally home alone and bored out my gourd, I picked up a newspaper to see what was playing at the local theaters. Nothing really captured my attention except one documentary with the strange title "The Late Great Planet Earth." So, I said, why not? Lit up a joint, got into my car and off I went to watch the movie stoned out of my mind.

But that night wound up being the turning point in my life! Even though I had watched the movie stoned, it still impacted me. The next day, I started to search for the book so that I could read through it. After I found it, and read through, I was even more anxious to see if what Hal Lindsey said was actually in the bible. So, the next book I bought was my first bible ever.

Not knowing any better and treating the bible as though it was just another book, I figured the logical place to start was with Genesis and read through each successive book. It took me months to do that -- but I had a lot of time to kill <g>. But I was really in for a surprise when I finally advanced to the Gospels. Jesus absolutely blew my socks off. I quickly reached the same conclusion that many of the first century Jews did who listened to Him: Where did this man get all this wisdom and knowledge and understanding?

After reading through the Gospels I went into my bedroom and I guess I just instinctively knelt down to pray -- but it was hardly a prayer of faith. It was more of a prayer of an agnostic. "God, IF your there - IF you really exist -- and If you can truly hear me -- then I ask that you lead me to one of YOUR churches because I'm not going to scour around to see which church is the real deal." That was the essence of my short and sweet prayer. And I prayed like that due to my experience with the Catholic Church when I was a kid. As a kid, I saw the hypocrisy that abounded in the church. So, I didn't want any part of that, especially given what Jesus taught on the subject. And of course, I prayed that prayer because I wanted to learn more. The Gospels really moved me!

Meanwhile, I continued to read through the NT and wouldn't you know that God put a Christian in my life -- a complete stranger who I meant by "accident"? He was bold about his faith, so I soon as I found out he was a Christian, we struck up a relationship immediately. It didn't take long before I started to attend his church -- a Baptist Church, as I recall. But all this while, I also kept reading the scriptures on my own. I couldn't get my nose out of the bible. BUT...as time passed, and even though I was very intrigued by the scriptures, especially prophecy, at the same time questions were building up in my mind. So many that I started to write them down, so that I wouldn't forget them.

My friend (his name was Tom) and I would discuss my questions but his answers but his answers weren't adequate. But...he also knew of pastor who just happened to be a faculty member at a local bible college. And you'll never guess what he taught: Dispensationalism. When I got introduced to this pastor (his name was Randy), we hit it off immediately as well, as I told him that I had seen Lindsey's documentary and read his book. And so I started to attend Randy's church. But...meanwhile the questions kept piling up and it reached a point where I became frustrated and was getting ready to throw in the towel. But I figured I'll call Randy first to see if he wants to tackle my questions. I even warned him that my questions are tough and they might shake his faith, which shows you how little I knew of God's grace. But he was not daunted and he invited me over to have lunch with him and his lovely wife Gloria.

Later that week, I went over and hit him with several "tough" questions, which he answered more than adequately. And he had so much wisdom that he sensed what was really eating at me...so he took time to educate me on the Gospel! And he explained the Gospel in such a way -- in a way that I had never heard before -- that it actually resonated with me. After spending the entire afternoon with him, I left to get into my car and I just couldn't move. So many things he had said to me were playing over and over inside my head -- until finally I just couldn't handle it anymore! I broke down like a baby and wept uncontrollably over my sins and how my sins -- my sins put Jesus on the Cross. But at the same time, I felt God's peace and love come over me. In retrospect, I have to think that was the Holy Spirit. That's when I became a born again child of God. I must have sat in my car a good 20 minutes or so before I was able to gather my wits about me and drive home.

When I returned home, I called Randy to tell him the good news. He and his wife Gloria were so filled with joy -- so exuberant that God had opened my heart. A couple of weeks later Randy baptized me in the ocean on Hollywood beach with a few other people.
And thus began my personal exodus from this world to the City of God -- to the New Jerusalem.

What about the seed of God. Have you forgotten that Luke says Adam was the son of God? There were four seeds among the three mrl entities. God's seed (His word), satan's seed (his words), eve's seed (her ova) and Adam's seed (his sperm).

HeIsHere said: Some "systems" assert people are BORN completely corrupted and totally depraved.

Just because some people believe and assert St. Augustine's view does not mean he was correct, he saw himself as a complete degenerate and read that into scripture.

Natural man whose spirit is not connected to God, he is separated (dead) by the consequences of the fall.
Natural does not mean evil and Paul is not juxtaposing sinner versus saint in his letter to the Corinthians.
The Calvinist view is way out of line with the intent of the letter, the distinction is between “human wisdom” and “divine revelation.”

It is, of course, quite common to hear the view that the “natural” man is the unregenerated sinner who is so enslaved in sin as to be unable to apprehend the gospel of God unless “illuminated” by a direct operation of the Holy Spirit.The sad reality is, it is difficult to locate many scholars who have not been tainted with Calvin’s views of this matter (cf. Institutes of the Christian Religion, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975, Vol. I, Bk. II, 19-20)

I know you think you have no error in your analogy, but Romans 1 seems to clearly disagree with you. So, as they say, I freely choose Scripture.

If you think the information Paul says natural man knows about God is simply natural understanding, or understanding of nature and not about God who is Spirit, then I disagree with you. You're misreading at minimum 1Cor2:14, which we've already been through.

The natural man needs to have his will made free.... For..
In his own natural born power his flesh will always dominate and tyrannize over his soul into rejecting God.

That does not mean that the soul -when made free by grace - is in itself unable to desire God.

Total depravity... if we are going to recognize what "total" means?
Would mean even our soul could not believe.

The soul is a trapped helpless slave until the power of God's grace liberates him/her.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I’m sure your testimony will bless many, according to His will. View attachment 265261

Okay...I'll share and keep the post at no worse than a PG level.

The Lord found me and called me nearly 45 years ago. I was not a religious person at all. But I had attended Catholic schools up to 2nd year high, and then was done with Catholicism. I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist per se -- but more of an agnostic who simply lived life like there was no God. Just another one of billions of Practical Atheists, even though philosophically I didn't subscribe. I would describe myself, however, as a card-carrying hedonist who lived life with gusto. I worked as hard as I partied and my motto was pretty much, "Let's eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we all die." I didn't marry until after my conversion so I was not restrained in my sex life either.

45 years ago, I was at a low ebb in my life. I came down with a liver disease that the allopathic medical community wasn't able to fix. After almost a year out of work, I found an alternative-natural medicine source that finally put me on the right track. But I had lost a very good paying job because of my prolonged illness -- but even so had sufficient resources to weather the storm and to even party hearty at home when friends would come over. And I was a big pothead! And pretty popular.

Then one night when I was literally home alone and bored out my gourd, I picked up a newspaper to see what was playing at the local theaters. Nothing really captured my attention except one documentary with the strange title "The Late Great Planet Earth." So, I said, why not? Lit up a joint, got into my car and off I went to watch the movie stoned out of my mind.

But that night wound up being the turning point in my life! Even though I had watched the movie stoned, it still impacted me. The next day, I started to search for the book so that I could read through it. After I found it, and read through, I was even more anxious to see if what Hal Lindsey said was actually in the bible. So, the next book I bought was my first bible ever.

Not knowing any better and treating the bible as though it was just another book, I figured the logical place to start was with Genesis and read through each successive book. It took me months to do that -- but I had a lot of time to kill <g>. But I was really in for a surprise when I finally advanced to the Gospels. Jesus absolutely blew my socks off. I quickly reached the same conclusion that many of the first century Jews did who listened to Him: Where did this man get all this wisdom and knowledge and understanding?

After reading through the Gospels I went into my bedroom and I guess I just instinctively knelt down to pray -- but it was hardly a prayer of faith. It was more of a prayer of an agnostic. "God, IF your there - IF you really exist -- and If you can truly hear me -- then I ask that you lead me to one of YOUR churches because I'm not going to scour around to see which church is the real deal." That was the essence of my short and sweet prayer. And I prayed like that due to my experience with the Catholic Church when I was a kid. As a kid, I saw the hypocrisy that abounded in the church. So, I didn't want any part of that, especially given what Jesus taught on the subject. And of course, I prayed that prayer because I wanted to learn more. The Gospels really moved me!

Meanwhile, I continued to read through the NT and wouldn't you know that God put a Christian in my life -- a complete stranger who I meant by "accident"? He was bold about his faith, so I soon as I found out he was a Christian, we struck up a relationship immediately. It didn't take long before I started to attend his church -- a Baptist Church, as I recall. But all this while, I also kept reading the scriptures on my own. I couldn't get my nose out of the bible. BUT...as time passed, and even though I was very intrigued by the scriptures, especially prophecy, at the same time questions were building up in my mind. So many that I started to write them down, so that I wouldn't forget them.

My friend (his name was Tom) and I would discuss my questions but his answers but his answers weren't adequate. But...he also knew of pastor who just happened to be a faculty member at a local bible college. And you'll never guess what he taught: Dispensationalism. When I got introduced to this pastor (his name was Randy), we hit it off immediately as well, as I told him that I had seen Lindsey's documentary and read his book. And so I started to attend Randy's church. But...meanwhile the questions kept piling up and it reached a point where I became frustrated and was getting ready to throw in the towel. But I figured I'll call Randy first to see if he wants to tackle my questions. I even warned him that my questions are tough and they might shake his faith, which shows you how little I knew of God's grace. But he was not daunted and he invited me over to have lunch with him and his lovely wife Gloria.

Later that week, I went over and hit him with several "tough" questions, which he answered more than adequately. And he had so much wisdom that he sensed what was really eating at me...so he took time to educate me on the Gospel! And he explained the Gospel in such a way -- in a way that I had never heard before -- that it actually resonated with me. After spending the entire afternoon with him, I left to get into my car and I just couldn't move. So many things he had said to me were playing over and over inside my head -- until finally I just couldn't handle it anymore! I broke down like a baby and wept uncontrollably over my sins and how my sins -- my sins put Jesus on the Cross. But at the same time, I felt God's peace and love come over me. In retrospect, I have to think that was the Holy Spirit. That's when I became a born again child of God. I must have sat in my car a good 20 minutes or so before I was able to gather my wits about me and drive home.

When I returned home, I called Randy to tell him the good news. He and his wife Gloria were so filled with joy -- so exuberant that God had opened my heart. A couple of weeks later Randy baptized me in the ocean on Hollywood beach with a few other people.
And thus began my personal exodus from this world to the City of God -- to the New Jerusalem.