The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

“Work with anxious concern to achieve your salvation. It is God who, in his good will toward you, begets in you any measure of desire or achievement. In everything you do, act without grumbling or arguing; prove yourselves innocent and straightforward, children of God beyond reproach.”

Phil 2:12b-15a

Your concern is baseless and your own judgment is poor. What I posted is true and your knee-jerk reaction shows you don't have control of your own emotions. And what you shared was a collection of verses that represent what an individual of faith will reflect and perform. But at no time did you make plain what faith is or from whence it comes. One could even argue that your reading comprehension is a little off as well as I never said that an individual would walk by faith prior to actually possessing faith.

Not about achieving salvation. It's about living it out.

New Living Translation
Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.

2 Peter 1:3-4: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.”

Yes...the results of salvation. That would be post salvation.

Right. God working in you. You working it out. Also post salvation.

I think we agree an a lot. What we disagree on is what God's grace accomplishes for the individual. I personally believe that God's grace is to help but not to achieve salvation. Whereas you believe that God's grace is to achieve salvation. There is no where in the Bible where you can point and say that God's grace achieve salvation. But it is through God's grace and faith that one accomplishes salvation that way no one can boast. So this is our disagreement.
And why do I believe this? Well I've already shared that with you. What's the true definition of believe? What's the true definition of repentance? Whats the true definition of God's grace? And you will find that these are not just words to believe in to accomplish righteousness but they are also words that require us to respond and act and cooperate. Not only that, but Paul goes into detail about explaining that cooperation is necessary. You're completely missing that part. I don't feel like I need to go more into it, because it's no longer a discussion, it's an argument. I'm not gonna persuade you or convince you. So therefore just go over what I've already sent. Be open, go before God and pray. And if you have any questions, then ask.

And as Paul indicates, the cooperation in bestowing the grace must be met with a cooperation on the part of the person receiving the grace. Otherwise (if no action is taken) it will be rendered vain. Thus in biblical language there is a human cooperation needed both in the giving and in the receiving of this grace.

Besides using the verb "synergize" (sunergeo, the verb used in different forms in the three preceding verses) Paul even uses the more "shocking" term "synergist" (sunergos) or "co-laborer" with respect to himself and God, saying: "For we are God's fellow workers (sunergoi); you are God's field, God's building" (1 Corinthians 3:9).

Here Paul again speaks of himself (and others) as synergists or cooperators with God in salvific matters, meaning that the score is now two verses speaking of God cooperating and two verses speaking of men cooperating, an even balance.

I agree that a response is called for. And one is always given. Saved people believe the gospel, and unsaved people always reject the gospel. And there is a verse that says grace saves...Ephesians 2:8.

Also I wasn't basing everything I sent you off of what you said.I'm basing everything I sent you off of what I said. You say that what I'm sending and what I'm communicating is a little off. Well, I would agree, according to you it would be. That's why I'm sharing.It's called having a dialogue And discussing different views. I gave you a bible definition for faith, you can figure it out. What I'm trying to show you is that you can't have faith unless your considered first to be reliable, dependable, and already walking out the faith. First comes belief which is to be convinced of the faith, and to respond to the faith, and to cooperate with the faith. Then you also have repentance which i'm sure you're aware of, and then you have grace which is help from god offered as a free gift. Only righteousness can be achieved through god's grace.

And I am agreeing that salvation is only accomplished through God's grace, but it does not say that grace accomplishes salvation. You still have a choice, and you still need to choose if you're gonna cooperate with god's grace.

I appreciate the discussion. Thank you. Grace and peace.

Don't forget the part after that. He also says through faith, and I've already explained what faith is. Faith requires a response, faith requires action, faith requires cooperation with god's grace, and what he's doing in your life. But faith is even more than that. Because faith also means that you are reliable, your consistent, and your dependable. If God restores your health, but you sit around and you smoke all day and live a unhealthy lifestyle.Then what good is that gift?What good is that grace?What good is it? You would be then accepting god's grace and blessing in vain.

2 Corinthians 6.

we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain—for He says, “At the acceptable time I listened to you, and on the day of salvation I helped you.” Behold, now is “the acceptable time,” behold, now is “the day of salvation”— (6:1b–2)

God bless.I always enjoy conversations like this. Thank you for being patient and taking the time so I can share.

Unless, of course you actually READ THE BIBLE, in which case it becomes obvious that "works" contribute NOTHING to salvation, but (as James teaches) are the normal result of having FAITH.

James' message in a nutshell, that Luther didn't seem to grasp, is: If what you CALL FAITH doesn't change you, and cause you to produce Good Works, then it's not "Biblical FAITH" at all - nothing but ineffective religious belief. You're confusing "Cause", and "Effect".

BUT THEN - in "Purgatory" they'll realize that they're victims of satan's BEST JOKE on Catholics. Oops - it's HELL, they were never born again, were never really Christians, their doctrine was false, and they'll never get out.

Chuckle!!! You'd be more convincing if you DIDN'T base your arguments on what the Bible DOESN'T say. Your cite makes it clear that "Works" aren't a contributory factor in Being Born Again of the Holy Spirit.

Your cite makes it clear that salvation is by FAITH, and also illustrated the truth in Rom 10:17, that FAITH comes by hearing GOD'S WORD. We refer to that as "Being CONVICTED OF OUR SIN". THEN you can repent and cry unto God to save you - and He will, and you start over NEW.

Well here it is. I've already shared a lot of information on my view. You can go back through the post and take a look at what I've had to say. There's nothing more that we need to discuss. Thanks for sharing your view. I can see that you're very bias and angry towards Catholics. And that's not something I'm gonna discuss with you. Take care.

The works part is actually faith and belief. I've already went into detail about this. No where in the bible does paul ever mentioned grace without faith or belief being a contributing factor. Paul indicates, that cooperation in bestowing the grace must be met with a cooperation on the part of the person receiving the grace. Otherwise (if no action is taken) it will be rendered vain. Thus in biblical language there is a human cooperation needed both in the giving and in the receiving of this grace.
The point is that we cannot criticize as unbiblical the language of cooperating with God in salvific matters.
Besides using the verb "synergize" (sunergeo, the verb used in different forms in the three preceding verses) Paul even uses the more "shocking" term "synergist" (sunergos) or "co-laborer" with respect to himself and God, saying: "For we are God's fellow workers (sunergoi); you are God's field, God's building" (1 Corinthians 3:9).
Here Paul again speaks of himself (and others) as synergists or cooperators with God in salvific matters, meaning that the score is now two verses speaking of God cooperating and two verses speaking of men cooperating, an even balance.
As you can clearly see, Paul goes into detail about needing to cooperate with God's grace.Or the grace that god has given you is in vain.
we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain—for He says, “At the acceptable time I listened to you, and on the day of salvation I helped you.” Behold, now is “the acceptable time,” behold, now is “the day of salvation”— (6:1b–2)
I also went into detail about us needing to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Before one can embrace faith and belief.
Again, don't put the cart before the horse. I am not disagreeing that God's grace and faith alone. Is what's necessary for us to become righteous and saved.
But my understanding is God's grace is god offering us help as a free gift and not salvation as a free gift. That it is not God's grace that accomplishes salvation but gods grace is nessacary for salvation. It is God's grace that is helping us to achieve salvation. We still have free will and choice, to either cooperate or to rebel. There is no where in the Bible that says that God's grace accomplishes salvation. That's where we disagree. You say that God's grace accomplishes salvation. I say that God's grace helps us to achieve salvation. So therefore, my view requires free will and choice to still be at play, where one can still lose their salvation.And you're saying that your will and choice are no longer in play, and therefore you cannot lose your salvation.That's another disagreement we have.
“You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; you have fallen away from grace” (Gal. 5:4).
Do not be deceived,” and he goes on to list multiple sins, warning that those who commit them will not “inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9–10).
As you can see these verses clearly say that you can lose your salvation and that if you partake in certain sins you will not be open to receiving god's grace, but will be cut off from god and his kingdom.

Two Gifts of Gods Grace to sinners Christ died for !

Two things Christ has accomplished for every sinner He Lived and died for, the election of grace, or His Body the Church before they do anything, before they are born even, are these:

#1 Forgiveness of sins and or pardon of sins Eph 1:7

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; A Gift of Grace !

as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ,

And second, A Gift of Righteousness freely imputed to them Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

They received it by Imputation, that's what makes it a free gift, Rom 4:6

Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,


This is the Righteousness of the Law Rom 8:3-4

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This means that Christ kept the totality of the righteousness of the law required by God for man, all men He did it for have it imputed to their charge, as a free gift ! 61