As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

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Did Jesus Lay Down His Life For Those Who Are Not His Sheep?


  • Total voters
    6

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
120
43
#1
John 10:15
15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

John 10:26-30
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps. 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. 23 Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly. 24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body upon the tree: that we, being dead to sins, should live to justice: by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#2
.
God has given His son a number of sheep to manage.

John 10:29 . . My sheep . . my Father gave them to me.

Jesus' Father expects His son to be conscientious about the sheep's safety.

John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me: that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.


Jesus never fails to give the One what He wants.

John 4:34 . . My food is to do the will of the One who sent me.

John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.

Now the thing is: were Jesus to lose even one of the sheep that his Father
entrusted to his care-- just one --then Jesus would not be able to say that
he "always" pleases the One who sent him. He could say that he pleases the
One most of the time, but certainly not always without fail.


People are actually casting a nay vote in regard to Jesus' competence when
they insist it's possible for him to lose some of the sheep that his Father
gave him. I would be inclined to agree with the skeptics were the shepherd
only human; however the Bible teaches that Christ is not only human, but
also a theophany (John 1:1-3 & John 1:14) viz: he's the divine architect
responsible for constructing the entire cosmos with all of its forms of life,
matter, and energy. So then, the good shepherd has all the powers and
abilities of the supreme being at his disposal to insure he succeeds at
keeping the sheep right where his Father wants them kept.


John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.

Were Christ only human; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be" saved; no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say shall be safer. That would leave him
some room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's claiming a
0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of

whoever comes thru the door.

FAQ: Why can't the sheep change their minds about following Christ and
leave him to follow someone else?


REPLY: Animal husbandry isn't democratic, on the contrary: it's despotic.

The thing is: a rancher's free will trumps his herd's free will; and the
rancher's brand burned into the animals' skins indelibly identify him as their
owner. So be advised: once someone makes the decision to unify with
Christ, they relinquish whatever sovereignty they had as a beast at large,
viz: they become Christ's property, and there's no going back because Jesus
and his Father play for keeps.


John 10:28-29 . . No one can take them out of my hand-- my Father, who
has given them to me, is greater than all; and no one can take them out of
the Father’s hand. I and my Father stand together.


1Cor 6:19-20 . .You are not your own; you were bought at a price.

Eph 1:13 . . In him you also-- who have heard the word of truth, the
gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him --were sealed with the
promised Holy Spirit.
_
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
#3
John 10:15
15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

John 10:26-30
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps. 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. 23 Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly. 24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body upon the tree: that we, being dead to sins, should live to justice: by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
You haven't voted in your own poll, MerSee.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
#4
"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

- John 10:15,26-28 (NKJV)
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
557
113
#5
John 10:15
15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

John 10:26-30
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps. 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. 23 Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly. 24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body upon the tree: that we, being dead to sins, should live to justice: by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
Regardless of whoever believes God or not, All are called, not all choose belief to see, many a time, if go through adversities, as Job did in the book of Job and then see Jesus do willingly for us to give us new life in his risen Life afterwards, thank you. Therefore choose willingly too, to go through any and all adversities first

Hebrews 10:10

Living Bible

10 Under this new plan we have been forgiven and made clean by Christ’s dying for us once and for all.
KJV
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
TLB
Under this new plan we have been forgiven and made clean by Christ’s dying for us once and for all.
PHILLIPS
After saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin you did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are made according to the Law), Christ then says, “Behold, I have come to do your will, O God.” That means he is dispensing with the old order of sacrifices, and establishing a new order of obedience to the will of God, and in that will we have been made holy by the single unique offering of the body of Christ.
NIV
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Romans 6:10
He died once for all to end sin’s power, but now he lives forever in unbroken fellowship with God.
Romans 10:5
For Moses wrote that if a person could be perfectly good and hold out against temptation all his life and never sin once, only then could he be pardoned and saved.
  1. Hebrews 7:27
    He never needs the daily blood of animal sacrifices, as other priests did, to cover over first their own sins and then the sins of the people; for he finished all sacrifices, once and for all, when he sacrificed himself on the cross.

  2. Hebrews 9:12
    and once for all took blood into that inner room, the Holy of Holies, and sprinkled it on the mercy seat; but it was not the blood of goats and calves. No, he took his own blood, and with it he, by himself, made sure of our eternal salvation.

Saved in the risen Life after the death first took away sin (John 1:29) for us the people to choose to believe God in this done work of Son for us to walk new and not of self anymore
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
557
113
#6
"As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. "But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

- John 10:15,26-28 (NKJV)
How great this is, when one gets swallowed up in victory in Son, being risen for us all to believe God. Thanks
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,896
1,084
113
Oregon
#7
.
Luke 2:8-12 . . Now there were shepherds in that region living in the fields
and keeping the night watch over their flock. The angel of The Lord
appeared to them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them, and they
were struck with great fear.


. . .The angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you
good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of
David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord.


The Greek word translated "savior" basically refers to rescuers, for example:
rescuing is what the Coast Guard does when boats capsize. Rescuing is what
Firemen do when people are trapped inside burning buildings. Rescuing is
what mountaineer teams do when climbers are in trouble. Rescuing is what
EMT paramedics do when someone needs to get to a hospital in a hurry; and
kept alive till they arrive. Rescuing is what surgeons do when someone
needs an organ transplant. I could go on and on giving example of rescuer
after rescuer; but I think we get the idea.


Jesus is like that, viz: he rescues people from the wrath of God-- people who
not only fully deserve it, but definitely in line to get it; and with no humanly
possible way to avoid it.


Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from childhood.

Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.


Now; of what real benefit would the savior of Luke 2:8-12 really be to
anybody if he couldn't guarantee fail-safe protection from the wrath of God?
He'd be of no benefit to anybody. No; he'd be an incompetent ninny that
nobody could rely on.


But, if a savior were to be announced who guarantees a free of charge, no
strings attached, fail safe, bullet proof, sin proof, human nature proof, Ten
Commandments proof, bad behavior proof, apostasy proof, reprobate proof,
back sliding proof, Sermon on the Mount proof, God proof, Devil proof,
irrevocable rescue from the wrath of God, and full time protection from
retribution; wouldn't that qualify as good news of great joy?


John 10:9 . . I am the door; whoever enters through me shall be saved.

Were Christ only human; then he wouldn't dare say "shall be" saved; no,
he'd have to tone it down a bit and say shall be safer. That would leave him
some room for error. But when Christ says "shall be saved" he's claiming a
0.0% failure rate. That's how confident Christ is that he will lose nothing of
whoever comes thru the door.


John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.


FAQ: How might an interested listener enter the door to Jesus' sheepfold and
obtain eternal life?


FAQ: By means of an RSVP

God was thinking of you when His son went to the cross so; find some
privacy, over your face with your hands for a sense of one-on-one, and
simply speak aloud, or under your breath, in your own words and tell God
that you are aware of the danger related to your sins. Tell Him you'd like to
take advantage of His son's death to protect yourself from retribution.


Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to
his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
_
 
Oct 9, 2021
881
291
63
#8
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

The Bible says God so loved the world, and the world through Him might be saved.

Jesus laid down His life for the world but only those that hear His voice, and obey, are His sheep.

1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

God wants all people to be saved so Jesus gave His life for the world but only those that accept the truth are saved.

Every year there was a remembrance of Israel's sins so the High Priest offered sacrifices for the nation of Israel to cover their sins, but only those that abided by the truth which would be to acknowledge the Old Testament as truth would have their sins covered.

Jesus gave His life as a sacrifice for the world but only those that abide in the truth will have their sins washed away.
 

Burn1986

Active member
Mar 4, 2024
918
212
43
#9
John 10:15
15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

John 10:26-30
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps. 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. 23 Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly. 24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body upon the tree: that we, being dead to sins, should live to justice: by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
Are you asking because you have absolutely NO IDEA? You’re telling me that you are in a Christian chat, and you’ve obviously read the Bible and yet you have absolutely NO IDEA about your salvation at all? Yeah okay.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,752
6,915
113
#10
1 Timothy, Chapter 2:


3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

John 3:16 also tells what Gods wishes are for mankind. Jesus suffered the cross for all who would believe in Him, and His blood was shed to pay the price for their salvation.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
10:10-18 Christ is a good Shepherd; many who were not thieves, yet were careless in their duty, and by their neglect the flock was much hurt. Bad principles are the root of bad practices. The Lord Jesus knows whom he has chosen, and is sure of them; they also know whom they have trusted, and are sure of Him. See here the grace of Christ; since none could demand his life of him, he laid it down of himself for our redemption. He offered himself to be the Saviour; Lo, I come. And the necessity of our case calling for it, he offered himself for the Sacrifice. He was both the offerer and the offering, so that his laying down his life was his offering up himself. From hence it is plain, that he died in the place and stead of men; to obtain their being set free from the punishment of sin, to obtain the pardon of their sin; and that his death should obtain that pardon. Our Lord laid not his life down for his doctrine, but for his sheep.

Matthew Pool said:

I lay down, that is, I am ready to lay down, or I shall shortly lay down, my life for the sheep: whether sheep can signify all and every person born into the world, is their concern more strictly to inquire, who are so tenacious of that point. That Christ died equally for all and every man: as also, whether upon that principle that absurdity must not follow. That Christ loved those who shall yet perish eternally, with such a love as the Father loved him, and he loved the Father.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,752
6,915
113
#11
Complete Jewish Bible:

John, Chapter 10:

14 I am the good shepherd; I know my own, and my own know me --
15 just as the Father knows me, and I know the Father --
and I lay down my life on behalf of the sheep.
16 Also I have other sheep which are not from this pen; I need to bring them, and they will hear my voice; and there will be one flock, one shepherd.
17 "This is why the Father loves me: because I lay down my life -- in order to take it up again!


(one of the few times when the CJB gives a clearer statement than the KJV)

Jesus died for ALL. Yet, God knows that all will not believe in Him even though He desires for ALL to be saved. This comes down to that dreaded concept of "free will." :)
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,745
557
113
#12
John 5:24 . . I assure you; those who listen to my message, and believe in
God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their
sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
Assurance, he is risen, my insurance, I stand in belief and am seeing his done work, working through me
I was a caterpillar, in metamorphosis to become a butterfly and not look back.
In Thanksgiving and praise, learning what taking all thought captive means

Thanks for this post
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,669
5,911
113
#13
John 10:15
15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

John 10:26-30
26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand. 29 That which my Father hath given me, is greater than all: and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father. 30 I and the Father are one.

1 Peter 2:21-25
21 For unto this are you called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving you an example that you should follow his steps. 22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. 23 Who, when he was reviled, did not revile: when he suffered, he threatened not: but delivered himself to him that judged him unjustly. 24 Who his own self bore our sins in his body upon the tree: that we, being dead to sins, should live to justice: by whose stripes you were healed. 25 For you were as sheep going astray; but you are now converted to the shepherd and bishop of your souls.
“and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4:10‬ ‭

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16-17‬ ‭

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭2:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬