Could Trump do anything to make you stop supporting him?
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
@DC_Draino
Am I happy Congress votes to hold Merrick Garland in contempt? Yes Do I think Merrick Garland is going to now indict himself? lol There’s only 1 way for Congress to show they’re serious about this: They need to arrest Merrick Garland themselves with the House Sergeant-at-Arms and yes they have the legal power to do so
Am I happy Congress votes to hold Merrick Garland in contempt? Yes Do I think Merrick Garland is going to now indict himself? lol There’s only 1 way for Congress to show they’re serious about this: They need to arrest Merrick Garland themselves with the House Sergeant-at-Arms and yes they have the legal power to do so
Do not be rejected silver
Jeremiah 6:28-30 Rejected silver
28 They are all hardened rebels, going about to slander. They are bronze and iron; they all act corruptly. 29 The bellows blow fiercely to burn away the lead with fire, but the refining goes on in vain; the wicked are not purged out. 30 They are called rejected silver, because the Lord has rejected them.”
“They are called rejected silver” -- can’t get any clearer than that. He is talking about those who are left behind after the rapture. Silver represents the price paid by Jesus to redeem us, to forgive our sins. As we have been forgiven we should forgive others. But look at these ones, they are redeemed by the Lord but all they do is go about and slander others. That is not forgiveness, that is bitterness. That is why they are rejected silver.
So what does this mean for servants of the Lord to go around and slander others?
I think Hagar is the clearest example.
Hagar was mistreated by Sarah
9 The Angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.” 10 Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, “I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.” 11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
My point in this thread is that God uses people to afflict us. His judgements are right in this and He does this in faithfulness.
Sarah told Abraham to go into Hagar and when he did she conceived. You can't blame Hagar or Abraham for this, it was Sarah that did this. However once Hagar conceived Sarah became jealous and afflicted her. The Bible says that Sarah "dealt harshly with her". That is not right, or is it?
4 So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.
This was Hagar's sin. The Bible says "if you forgive those who trespass against you then your heavenly Father can also forgive you". Hagar sinned first, what Sarah did to Hagar let her know what it is like to be despised by others.
Now the question I have is did she forgive Sarah? Look at what God says about her son
He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
If you don't deal with sin in your life you can infect others with it. She despised her master and her son was ten times worse. Have you ever been around someone who always complains about their boss and everyone they work with is wrong and every few years they need to get another job and yet everywhere they work it is always the same story, everyone is wrong except them?
We forgive others so that God can forgive us. Having our sin forgiven is healing, it restores us, it puts a stop to it.
Look at what this says:
Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
The Lord has heard her afflictions. She has been complaining. Non-stop. He didn't hear her prayer, her praise, her worship, her repentance, no, he heard her affliction. When you are complaining about your affliction, turn it to prayer. God wants to hear from us. The affliction is not supposed to turn you to complaints but rather to prayer and repentance.
Hagar obviously was not going to repent, so what does God do? He gives her a son, Ishmael, and she will see that she is going to produce a "donkey of a man" who will be against everyone and everyone against him. She will see the fruit of her sin. Maybe that will make her repent.
Jeremiah 6:28-30 Rejected silver
28 They are all hardened rebels, going about to slander. They are bronze and iron; they all act corruptly. 29 The bellows blow fiercely to burn away the lead with fire, but the refining goes on in vain; the wicked are not purged out. 30 They are called rejected silver, because the Lord has rejected them.”
“They are called rejected silver” -- can’t get any clearer than that. He is talking about those who are left behind after the rapture. Silver represents the price paid by Jesus to redeem us, to forgive our sins. As we have been forgiven we should forgive others. But look at these ones, they are redeemed by the Lord but all they do is go about and slander others. That is not forgiveness, that is bitterness. That is why they are rejected silver.
So what does this mean for servants of the Lord to go around and slander others?
I think Hagar is the clearest example.
Hagar was mistreated by Sarah
9 The Angel of the Lord said to her, “Return to your mistress, and submit yourself under her hand.” 10 Then the Angel of the Lord said to her, “I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, so that they shall not be counted for multitude.” 11 And the Angel of the Lord said to her:
“Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
My point in this thread is that God uses people to afflict us. His judgements are right in this and He does this in faithfulness.
Sarah told Abraham to go into Hagar and when he did she conceived. You can't blame Hagar or Abraham for this, it was Sarah that did this. However once Hagar conceived Sarah became jealous and afflicted her. The Bible says that Sarah "dealt harshly with her". That is not right, or is it?
4 So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.
This was Hagar's sin. The Bible says "if you forgive those who trespass against you then your heavenly Father can also forgive you". Hagar sinned first, what Sarah did to Hagar let her know what it is like to be despised by others.
Now the question I have is did she forgive Sarah? Look at what God says about her son
He shall be a wild man;
His hand shall be against every man,
And every man’s hand against him.
And he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
If you don't deal with sin in your life you can infect others with it. She despised her master and her son was ten times worse. Have you ever been around someone who always complains about their boss and everyone they work with is wrong and every few years they need to get another job and yet everywhere they work it is always the same story, everyone is wrong except them?
We forgive others so that God can forgive us. Having our sin forgiven is healing, it restores us, it puts a stop to it.
Look at what this says:
Behold, you are with child,
And you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
Because the Lord has heard your affliction.
The Lord has heard her afflictions. She has been complaining. Non-stop. He didn't hear her prayer, her praise, her worship, her repentance, no, he heard her affliction. When you are complaining about your affliction, turn it to prayer. God wants to hear from us. The affliction is not supposed to turn you to complaints but rather to prayer and repentance.
Hagar obviously was not going to repent, so what does God do? He gives her a son, Ishmael, and she will see that she is going to produce a "donkey of a man" who will be against everyone and everyone against him. She will see the fruit of her sin. Maybe that will make her repent.
But we see an even deeper work with Leah, Rachel, Jacob and Joseph
Leah was unloved
31 When the Lord saw that Leah was unloved, He opened her womb; but Rachel was barren. 32 So Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; for she said, “The Lord has surely looked on my affliction. Now therefore, my husband will love me.”
If you read this story it seems there is no hint of sin from Leah. She had nothing to do with deceiving Jacob, this was her father's doing, and she desperately wanted to be loved by Jacob. So then how do you explain this, what is the sin that she needs to forgive so that God could forgive her? Read on!
God opened Leah's womb to have kids while at the same time making it so that Rachel did not bear any children. So this struggle begins, Rachel gives her maid to Jacob who bears two children, and Leah gives her maid to Jacob who also bears two children. And Leah had four children at this point. There are 8 babies running around, Reuben is the oldest, maybe six years old at this point, and Rachel has no children.
14 Now Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them to his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, “Please give me some of your son’s mandrakes.” 15 But she said to her, “Is it a small matter that you have taken away my husband? Would you take away my son’s mandrakes also?” And Rachel said, “Therefore he will lie with you tonight for your son’s mandrakes.”
Reuben goes out and picks some wildflowers for his mom. Rachel sees this, the aunt without any kids, and she asks Leah if she could have those flowers. Rachel has changed her attitude. Instead of competing with her sister, she decides she wants to be part of the family, to enjoy all the kids. She isn't the mother but she is the aunt. Instead of being jealous about what she doesn't have she wants to celebrate what she does have. This is when we discover Leah's unforgiveness in her heart. She married Jacob with "deceit" that made things hard enough, but then her sister comes and marries her husband a week later. Imagine how hard that would be in a normal marriage, but to be unloved because Jacob had been cheated and then Rachel comes and takes him away from her. So Rachel for the first time sees what happened through her sister's eyes. Leah had nothing to do with this, it was Laban, she is the victim. So she makes a deal with her sister, you let me be the loving aunt for your children and in exchange you get Jacob for the night. It sounds crass, but remember what happened, Jacob worked for 7 years to get Rachel and then was cheated. Now Leah can replay the wedding night without any deceit, she has bought him. The sin that Leah needed to be forgiven of is her unforgiveness to Rachel. As a result Rachel was "unloved", an aunt shunned from the family. As a result of Rachel having her heart enlarged to see that she could enjoy all the children and the whole family. Her heart embraced all the children as her own.
After this the situation in the family was restored. Leah was loved, Jacob chose to be buried alongside Leah and Rachel became the mother of all Israel. Rachel is considered the Mother of Israel.
Jacob had his wages changed ten times
38 These twenty years I have been with you; your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried their young, and I have not eaten the rams of your flock. 39 That which was torn by beasts I did not bring to you; I bore the loss of it. You required it from my hand, whether stolen by day or stolen by night. 40 There I was! In the day the drought consumed me, and the frost by night, and my sleep departed from my eyes. 41 Thus I have been in your house twenty years; I served you fourteen years for your two daughters, and six years for your flock, and you have changed my wages ten times. 42 Unless the God of my father, the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac, had been with me, surely now you would have sent me away empty-handed. God has seen my affliction and the labor of my hands, and rebuked you last night.”
If you read the story there is no sin from Jacob and yet Laban changed his wages ten times and it was a real affliction that God was aware of. Or was there?
Let's forgive Laban, what do we see? We learn that Jacob has discovered how to breed various traits into animals. If Laban changes the contract so that he gets all the sheep that are this or that coat then Jacob adjusts the breeding so that is what he gets. Changing this ten times was like running a science experiment over and over again to prove you have control of this and can determine what traits you want bred into the animals.
OK, so what sin of Jacob does God now forgive? Jacob had been given a dream of angels ascending and descending on a ladder to heaven to get treasures from heaven. Understanding genetics and how to breed various traits is one of the great treasures of all human history and certainly a great treasure to pass down to your children who are also shepherds. Where is Jacob's worship and praise? We see a grudging acknowledgement that God had "seen" his affliction. With Hagar God heard her complaints, but here God "sees" his affliction. This is like those who fast and make sure they "appear to be fasting". Jesus called them hypocrites. We are all cut from the same block of cheese and unless we see our sin and forgive others we will not be healed from this.
Joseph was hated and betrayed
52 And the name of the second he called Ephraim: “For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.”
We should all know the story, sold into slavery by his brothers and then framed by his boss's wife and sent to prison. You would think that he would be a very angry, bitter old man. But instead he tells his brothers that these things were "God's doing".
Genesis 45:5 But now, do not therefore be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life.
He was mistreated worse than Hagar was. He was unloved worse than Leah was. And he was mistreated by his boss worse than Jacob was. But he had a vision, he saw that God was working all things to good for those who love God and are called according to purpose. He made sure no one heard him complaining which is why the guards appreciated him so much and he made sure no one saw him "fasting" which is why he cleaned up before going to Pharaoh. He also saw that he had received a double blessing.
Clearly he forgave his brothers and his former boss. He saw they were merely tools used by God to accomplish His purpose which was the salvation of mankind.
Leah was unloved
31 When the Lord saw that Leah was unloved, He opened her womb; but Rachel was barren. 32 So Leah conceived and bore a son, and she called his name Reuben; for she said, “The Lord has surely looked on my affliction. Now therefore, my husband will love me.”
If you read this story it seems there is no hint of sin from Leah. She had nothing to do with deceiving Jacob, this was her father's doing, and she desperately wanted to be loved by Jacob. So then how do you explain this, what is the sin that she needs to forgive so that God could forgive her? Read on!
God opened Leah's womb to have kids while at the same time making it so that Rachel did not bear any children. So this struggle begins, Rachel gives her maid to Jacob who bears two children, and Leah gives her maid to Jacob who also bears two children. And Leah had four children at this point. There are 8 babies running around, Reuben is the oldest, maybe six years old at this point, and Rachel has no children.
14 Now Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them to his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, “Please give me some of your son’s mandrakes.” 15 But she said to her, “Is it a small matter that you have taken away my husband? Would you take away my son’s mandrakes also?” And Rachel said, “Therefore he will lie with you tonight for your son’s mandrakes.”
Reuben goes out and picks some wildflowers for his mom. Rachel sees this, the aunt without any kids, and she asks Leah if she could have those flowers. Rachel has changed her attitude. Instead of competing with her sister, she decides she wants to be part of the family, to enjoy all the kids. She isn't the mother but she is the aunt. Instead of being jealous about what she doesn't have she wants to celebrate what she does have. This is when we discover Leah's unforgiveness in her heart. She married Jacob with "deceit" that made things hard enough, but then her sister comes and marries her husband a week later. Imagine how hard that would be in a normal marriage, but to be unloved because Jacob had been cheated and then Rachel comes and takes him away from her. So Rachel for the first time sees what happened through her sister's eyes. Leah had nothing to do with this, it was Laban, she is the victim. So she makes a deal with her sister, you let me be the loving aunt for your children and in exchange you get Jacob for the night. It sounds crass, but remember what happened, Jacob worked for 7 years to get Rachel and then was cheated. Now Leah can replay the wedding night without any deceit, she has bought him. The sin that Leah needed to be forgiven of is her unforgiveness to Rachel. As a result Rachel was "unloved", an aunt shunned from the family. As a result of Rachel having her heart enlarged to see that she could enjoy all the children and the whole family. Her heart embraced all the children as her own.
After this the situation in the family was restored. Leah was loved, Jacob chose to be buried alongside Leah and Rachel became the mother of all Israel. Rachel is considered the Mother of Israel.
Jacob had his wages changed ten times
38 These twenty years I have been with you; your ewes and your female goats have not miscarried their young, and I have not eaten the rams of your flock. 39 That which was torn by beasts I did not bring to you; I bore the loss of it. You required it from my hand, whether stolen by day or stolen by night. 40 There I was! In the day the drought consumed me, and the frost by night, and my sleep departed from my eyes. 41 Thus I have been in your house twenty years; I served you fourteen years for your two daughters, and six years for your flock, and you have changed my wages ten times. 42 Unless the God of my father, the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac, had been with me, surely now you would have sent me away empty-handed. God has seen my affliction and the labor of my hands, and rebuked you last night.”
If you read the story there is no sin from Jacob and yet Laban changed his wages ten times and it was a real affliction that God was aware of. Or was there?
Let's forgive Laban, what do we see? We learn that Jacob has discovered how to breed various traits into animals. If Laban changes the contract so that he gets all the sheep that are this or that coat then Jacob adjusts the breeding so that is what he gets. Changing this ten times was like running a science experiment over and over again to prove you have control of this and can determine what traits you want bred into the animals.
OK, so what sin of Jacob does God now forgive? Jacob had been given a dream of angels ascending and descending on a ladder to heaven to get treasures from heaven. Understanding genetics and how to breed various traits is one of the great treasures of all human history and certainly a great treasure to pass down to your children who are also shepherds. Where is Jacob's worship and praise? We see a grudging acknowledgement that God had "seen" his affliction. With Hagar God heard her complaints, but here God "sees" his affliction. This is like those who fast and make sure they "appear to be fasting". Jesus called them hypocrites. We are all cut from the same block of cheese and unless we see our sin and forgive others we will not be healed from this.
Joseph was hated and betrayed
52 And the name of the second he called Ephraim: “For God has caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.”
We should all know the story, sold into slavery by his brothers and then framed by his boss's wife and sent to prison. You would think that he would be a very angry, bitter old man. But instead he tells his brothers that these things were "God's doing".
Genesis 45:5 But now, do not therefore be grieved or angry with yourselves because you sold me here; for God sent me before you to preserve life.
He was mistreated worse than Hagar was. He was unloved worse than Leah was. And he was mistreated by his boss worse than Jacob was. But he had a vision, he saw that God was working all things to good for those who love God and are called according to purpose. He made sure no one heard him complaining which is why the guards appreciated him so much and he made sure no one saw him "fasting" which is why he cleaned up before going to Pharaoh. He also saw that he had received a double blessing.
Clearly he forgave his brothers and his former boss. He saw they were merely tools used by God to accomplish His purpose which was the salvation of mankind.
Good grief man mandrakes were a supposed fertility drug. Thats what is going on here......
What are the mandrakes mentioned in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Mandrakes have unusually large, forked roots that sometimes resemble a human body with open arms and legs. In the ancient world, mandrake roots were considered an aphrodisiac and were commonly prepared and eaten as a fertility drug. There are many references to mandrakes in folklore and superstitions in various cultures.
The one other biblical account to speak of mandrakes is found in Genesis 30. There, Jacob’s two wives, Rachel and Leah, vie for Jacob’s attention. Rachel wants a child, and Leah wants more children. Leah’s son Reuben finds some mandrakes in the field and gives them to his mother. Leah then trades the mandrakes to Rachel in exchange for the opportunity to sleep with Jacob that night (Genesis 30:14–16). Rachel, who was as yet childless, accepts the trade, believing that the mandrakes would help her conceive at a later time. Leah sleeps with Jacob that night and becomes pregnant with her fifth son (verse 17).
What are the mandrakes mentioned in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org
Mandrakes have unusually large, forked roots that sometimes resemble a human body with open arms and legs. In the ancient world, mandrake roots were considered an aphrodisiac and were commonly prepared and eaten as a fertility drug. There are many references to mandrakes in folklore and superstitions in various cultures.
The one other biblical account to speak of mandrakes is found in Genesis 30. There, Jacob’s two wives, Rachel and Leah, vie for Jacob’s attention. Rachel wants a child, and Leah wants more children. Leah’s son Reuben finds some mandrakes in the field and gives them to his mother. Leah then trades the mandrakes to Rachel in exchange for the opportunity to sleep with Jacob that night (Genesis 30:14–16). Rachel, who was as yet childless, accepts the trade, believing that the mandrakes would help her conceive at a later time. Leah sleeps with Jacob that night and becomes pregnant with her fifth son (verse 17).
That is a theory that borders on witchcraft and the occult. A six year old boy finds some kind of aphrodisiac for his mom. This is a theory based solely on the fact that Leah gave them to Rachel and then conceived. But that makes no sense because Leah didn't use them, but she is the one that conceived. Rachel is the one that got them but she didn't conceive. So even the theory is bogus, still it is prevalent in witchcraft, I think the Harry Potter books talk about mandrakes in that way.
A second theory is that this Hebrew word from the root word for "basket" simply meant a basket of flowers, they simply refer to wild flowers. This is the time of the wheat harvest, wheat is a grass, so when the wheat is ready to harvest the fields are filled with wild flowers. Reuben, a six year old boy picks flowers for his mother who then gives them to his aunt.
Those are the two theories that the rabbis teach.
The aphrodisiac theory in my opinion does not hold water. We have absolutely no basis to think that Leah taught her six year old son herbology so that he could go and find her an aphrodisiac, nor does the Bible ever talk in this way.
A second theory is that this Hebrew word from the root word for "basket" simply meant a basket of flowers, they simply refer to wild flowers. This is the time of the wheat harvest, wheat is a grass, so when the wheat is ready to harvest the fields are filled with wild flowers. Reuben, a six year old boy picks flowers for his mother who then gives them to his aunt.
Those are the two theories that the rabbis teach.
The aphrodisiac theory in my opinion does not hold water. We have absolutely no basis to think that Leah taught her six year old son herbology so that he could go and find her an aphrodisiac, nor does the Bible ever talk in this way.