Saul of Tarsus was not saved on the road to Damascus.

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B

Beckworth

Active member
#1
May 15, 2019
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#1
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

Well-known member
#2
Jul 5, 2023
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#2
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
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🙄
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#3
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
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#3
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
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When you say, "but no evidence that he "prayed through" to salvation" how do you know that? You even admitted that "Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying." So how do you know it was not praying for salvation?

Also, as you stated, "Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to "Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins." For your information you have at Acts 10:44-48 a situation or a "model" if you will of Cornelius and his household at Acts 10:45, "And all the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because (or why) they received the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles also,." Then at vs47, Surely no one can refuse the water for those to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" This means that one is saved first and then they are to be water baptized. In other words, you do not get water baptized to be saved.

And what about those three days of Saul fasting and praying, what happened? I submit the answer can be found at Galatians 1:11-12. "For I would have you know brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. Vs12, "For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." In fact if you read the rest of chapter 1 of Galatians Paul explains his and how he came to salvation.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
M

montana123

Well-known member
#4
Oct 9, 2021
852
286
63
#4
Beckworth said:
Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians UNTIL…he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. Acts 9 He was blinded by a very bright light but Jesus talked to him and told him,” I am Jesus…” Saul BELIVED and asked Jesus, “What do you want me to do?” Let’s just stop right here and ask yourself what do preachers today say Saul should do right here?
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
So what did JESUS say? He told Saul to go into the city and there he would be told WHAT HE MUST DO! Obviously, there was MORE he needed to do to be saved than just believe. If not, then why did Jesus say that?
Saul spent 3 days in Damascus fasting and praying. Evidence of REPENTANCE but no evidence that he “prayed through” to salvation. Finally, Ananias came to him and told him to “Arise, and be BAPTIZED and wash away your sins.” Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
Click to expand...
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

It does not say Ananias told him arise and be baptized and wash away your sins but he would have to be water baptized to wash away his sins.

I do believe water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and water baptism is for the washing away of sins.

Jesus said a person must be born of the water and Spirit.

Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all water baptized, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again.

Romans says we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, for if we are planted together with Christ in the likeness of His death then we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

We are not baptized to be part of the Church, or to show we have faith, but we are baptized to identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death.

We have to identify in His death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized to lay down our sins, and to receive the Holy Spirit.

We cannot cut out the middle man, water baptism, for it is part of the salvation plan of God and we have to identify the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible speaks of the flood and how 8 people were saved by water and the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is obvious it is speaking of water baptism for it states it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh which water will do, and it is identified with the flood which is water.

Which it says baptism does now save us.

Some people say we are not saved by works and water baptism is work.

But the Bible says it is the work of faith, and faith works by love.

Faith is work, repentance is a work, for everything we do, and say, and think is a work.

Also they say we are saved by faith alone, but the Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

Which means no love then no faith because love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Which many people that say faith alone violate love because they hold on to sin because they think they cannot fall so they enjoy sin, but love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

And they go by their wants but Paul said if any person teaches godliness is gain from such withdraw yourselves having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

So these people will fall short of fully understanding the Bible which many that say faith alone would fall under that which they also say water baptism is not part of God's salvation plan even though the Bible says water baptism does now save us.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#5
Jul 18, 2017
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#5
Beckworth said:
Saul still had his SINS three days after he BELIEVED, and REPENTED. This was what “he was told he must do.”
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This can be labeled as "Baloney from Beckworth". How do we know that Saul was saved right there on the road to Damascus? You just have to carefully read the actual account. So let's do that right here:
3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
*****************
So what do we learn from the underlined verses?

1. He was hunting for "disciples of the Lord". Saul had probably already seen and heard Christ. We do not know if he witnessed the crucifixion, but he certainly knew what the apostles were preaching about Christ, and who were His disciples. So the crucified and risen "Lord" was already know to him when he was on his way to Damascus.

2. He heard a voice from Heaven saying "Saul, Saul. why are you persecuting me?". Therefore he immediately recognized two things: (1) it was the Lord Jesus Christ who was speaking to him (either in Hebrew or in Aramaic), and (2) Christ fully identified Himself with His disciples by saying "Me" instead of "them" or instead of "my disciples".

3. But Saul still needed to confirm that it was Jesus, and no one else. so he said "Who art thou, Lord?". We see here, that deep down he already knows that this is the Lord Jesus Christ, so he could not avoid including the word "Lord".

4. And the Lord responded with "I am JESUS..." That was irrefutable.

5. Now that he knew for sure that this is the Lord Jesus Christ, he became very fearful. He imagined he had already come under divine judgment, and rightly so. He already knew from the Old Testament about God's wrath against His enemies. So he probably imagined that he would be killed by Christ that very moment.

6. Therefore Saul was "astonished" that the Lord would even speak to him, rather than simply take his life. Therefore he said "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?". And that was the very moment of his conversion.

7. Today sinners who are convicted by the Holy Spirit have just heard the Gospel, and what the New Testament says about what Christ would have them do, in order to be saved. But there was no New Testament at that point.

8. So Saul was now willing to OBEY the Lord instead of persecuting His disciples. And a sure sign of the conversion of any sinner is the willingness to immediately obey Christ.

9. Then the Lord told Saul to go into Damascus, and he would be told what he must do. The Lord already knew his heart, so He also knew that Saul would not only be willing to be baptized AS A BELIEVER (which is the only valid scriptural baptism), but also be willing within a matter of days to preach Christ, and that "He is the Son of God", and also "proving this is very Christ (Messiah)" who had come to save Israel from their sins.

10. Christians need to clearly understand that water baptism DOES NOT SAVE ANYONE. So when Christ sent him to be baptized, he was indeed saved, and ready to take the next step which is water baptism by immersion. As a matter of fact, the book of Acts clearly shows that the apostles and their companions immediately baptized BELIEVERS after conversion.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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Nehemiah6 said:
6. Therefore Saul was "astonished" that the Lord would even speak to him, rather than simply take his life. Therefore he said "Lord what wilt thou have me to do?". And that was the very moment of his conversion.
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and you know this, how?
Not that I necessarily disagree, but aren't you presuming to know something that only God knows?
 
N

Niki7

Guest
#7
#7
Let's see now

the op plus post 4 have me like

 
N

Niki7

Guest
#8
#8
Beckworth said:
Some would say, “ There is NOTHING you need to do. You ‘believe’ so you are saved.”
Some would say, “ Just repeat the ‘sinner’s prayer’ and you will be saved.”
Some would say, “ Just accept Jesus in your heart and you will be saved.”
Some would say he was saved because he had a “religious experience.”
Click to expand...
so you speak for the Somes do you?

and all to make a point you would like people to discuss/agree with/argue about

well ok then ... know that this is debated by people who probably have a better grip on scripture than many here, so a discussion should be possible but I doubt it
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#10
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
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#10
montana123 said:
Act 9:18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

It does not say Ananias told him arise and be baptized and wash away your sins but he would have to be water baptized to wash away his sins.

I do believe water baptism is part of the salvation plan of God, and water baptism is for the washing away of sins.

Jesus said a person must be born of the water and Spirit.

Acts 2:38 says baptism is for the remission of sins.

Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all water baptized, and those that were baptized unto John's baptism had to be baptized again.

Romans says we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, for if we are planted together with Christ in the likeness of His death then we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection.

We are not baptized to be part of the Church, or to show we have faith, but we are baptized to identify with the man Christ Jesus in His death.

We have to identify in His death, burial, and resurrection, by repenting of our sins, being water baptized to lay down our sins, and to receive the Holy Spirit.

We cannot cut out the middle man, water baptism, for it is part of the salvation plan of God and we have to identify the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible speaks of the flood and how 8 people were saved by water and the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

It is obvious it is speaking of water baptism for it states it is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh which water will do, and it is identified with the flood which is water.

Which it says baptism does now save us.

Some people say we are not saved by works and water baptism is work.

But the Bible says it is the work of faith, and faith works by love.

Faith is work, repentance is a work, for everything we do, and say, and think is a work.

Also they say we are saved by faith alone, but the Bible says charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

Which means no love then no faith because love is greater than faith, and faith works by love.

Which many people that say faith alone violate love because they hold on to sin because they think they cannot fall so they enjoy sin, but love does not think an evil thought, and does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

And they go by their wants but Paul said if any person teaches godliness is gain from such withdraw yourselves having food and clothing be content.

For the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Which some have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.

So these people will fall short of fully understanding the Bible which many that say faith alone would fall under that which they also say water baptism is not part of God's salvation plan even though the Bible says water baptism does now save us.
Click to expand...
Can you please explain how it is that one of the thieves on the cross was saved and would be in Paradise with Jesus this day? He was not water baptized?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#11
Jan 18, 2016
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#11
bluto said:
Can you please explain how it is that one of the thieves on the cross was saved and would be in Paradise with Jesus this day? He was not water baptized?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
Because that was a one-off event that Jesus himself did. Name another person that was saved without baptism? We'll wait...
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#12
Jan 18, 2016
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#12
Nehemiah6 said:
As a matter of fact, the book of Acts clearly shows that the apostles and their companions immediately baptized BELIEVERS after conversion.
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That is 100% correct.
I wonder why that was?
 
Lamar

Lamar

Active member
#13
May 21, 2023
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#13
bluto said:
Can you please explain how it is that one of the thieves on the cross was saved and would be in Paradise with Jesus this day? He was not water baptized?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Click to expand...
He was not baptized??? How would you know such a thing?

If you claim esoteric understanding this will be a short discussion.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#14
Aug 4, 2016
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#14
Lamar said:
He was not baptized??? How would you know such a thing?

If you claim esoteric understanding this will be a short discussion.
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:rolleyes: Let me put it this way, where in the Bible does a person who is facing death on a cross as the thief is come to the conclusion of getting water baptized before Jesus told him he had too? "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:42-43. Now, you do have one other option from the question your asking me. Do you think that the thief after admitting he was guilty/repented jumped down off the cross looking for somebody to water baptize him? The thief repented and Jesus knew the thief's heart, that's why Jesus said he will be in Paradise with Jesus. Is there anything in what I said "esoteric" to you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#15
Jan 18, 2016
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#15
bluto said:
:rolleyes: Let me put it this way, where in the Bible does a person who is facing death on a cross as the thief is come to the conclusion of getting water baptized before Jesus told him he had too? "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:42-43. Now, you do have one other option from the question your asking me. Do you think that the thief after admitting he was guilty/repented jumped down off the cross looking for somebody to water baptize him? The thief repented and Jesus knew the thief's heart, that's why Jesus said he will be in Paradise with Jesus. Is there anything in what I said "esoteric" to you?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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Are you ignoring my answer to your question? It's ok if you do, I was simply wondering.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#16
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
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#16
hornetguy said:
Are you ignoring my answer to your question? It's ok if you do, I was simply wondering.
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Not at all, I just haven't gotten to it yet. Since you brought it up I will address your question? You said, "Because that was a one-off event that Jesus himself did. Name another person that was saved without baptism? We'll wait...

Your the one saying, "that was a one-off event that Jesus himself did." To that I say, "So what." How does that change the facts of the thief repenting and admitting he deserves to die for his crime. In other words, Jesus knew his heart/saw his faith and that's why Jesus said he would be in Paradise with Jesus. Water baptism has nothing to do with it.

I also brought up Acts 10:44-48. When you read the context, specifically verses 46-47, the people were saved BEFORE getting water baptized. Peter then said at vs48 that they should get baptized. Look, if water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, please explain to me why Jesus never mentioned at John 3:15, 3:16, 3:18, John 5:24, John 6:29, 6;40, 6:47, John 11:25, 11:26. Why did Jesus not mention water baptism in these verses? Explain it to me? Guess what Jesus did mention? "Believe/Believes."

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
D

DRobinson

Active member
#17
Aug 23, 2023
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#17
So we have another thread with the false teaching that it takes a second person to be involved it the salvation of a person.
A second person to do the baptism.
This is to say God is not powerful enough to save a person, but needs the help of another person to complete the process.
Just pure foolishness that I will ignore.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#18
Jan 18, 2016
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#18
bluto said:
Your the one saying, "that was a one-off event that Jesus himself did." To that I say, "So what." How does that change the facts of the thief repenting and admitting he deserves to die for his crime. In other words, Jesus knew his heart/saw his faith and that's why Jesus said he would be in Paradise with Jesus. Water baptism has nothing to do with it.
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So what? Jesus has the authority to "save" anyone he pleases. Just because he did it one time, in a very exceptional circumstance, does not give us permission to simply write it off as being un-necessary. There are too many other scriptures that show us the necessity of immersion....
bluto said:
Look, if water baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation, please explain to me why Jesus never mentioned at John 3:15, 3:16, 3:18, John 5:24, John 6:29, 6;40, 6:47, John 11:25, 11:26. Why did Jesus not mention water baptism in these verses? Explain it to me?
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I will explain that to you when you explain to me why Jesus LAST, FINAL instructions to his disciples was:

"19 [g]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to [h]follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you [i]always, to the end of the age.”

And explain to me why Paul, after not eating and drinking for 3 DAYS, arose and was baptized.... before he ate or drank. ?? Does that sound not important to you?

Why did the eunuch with Philip demand to be baptized as soon as they found water? He was convinced, believed, and the FIRST thing he did was to be baptized.

Look.... you alone have to answer for your beliefs, and willful mishandling of scripture. I prefer to follow what scripture says, taking all relevant teachings and coming to a conclusion.... not cherry picking the scriptures that support my misguided beliefs...
 
D

DRobinson

Active member
#19
Aug 23, 2023
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#19
Salvation is by faith and faith only.
Always has been and always will be.
No exceptions.
If this is not true, there would be no hope for a person who can not be baptized by a second person.
So why even approach a person on his death bed?
Better get saved where there is a second person and enough water of just accept your destiny.
 
B

bluto

Senior Member
#20
Aug 4, 2016
2,103
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#20
hornetguy said:
So what? Jesus has the authority to "save" anyone he pleases. Just because he did it one time, in a very exceptional circumstance, does not give us permission to simply write it off as being un-necessary. There are too many other scriptures that show us the necessity of immersion....

I will explain that to you when you explain to me why Jesus LAST, FINAL instructions to his disciples was:

"19 [g]Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to [h]follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you [i]always, to the end of the age.”

And explain to me why Paul, after not eating and drinking for 3 DAYS, arose and was baptized.... before he ate or drank. ?? Does that sound not important to you?

Why did the eunuch with Philip demand to be baptized as soon as they found water? He was convinced, believed, and the FIRST thing he did was to be baptized.

Look.... you alone have to answer for your beliefs, and willful mishandling of scripture. I prefer to follow what scripture says, taking all relevant teachings and coming to a conclusion.... not cherry picking the scriptures that support my misguided beliefs...
Click to expand...
Wait a minute, I never said that one should not get baptized. I'm saying water baptism is not required to receive salvation. You then said this: "I will explain that to you when you explain to me why Jesus LAST, FINAL instructions to his disciples was:" Wait a minute, I ask you first to explain the verses of what Jesus stated. However, since I'm such a nice guy I will address the Great Commission verses at Matthew 28:29-20.

The first thing of notice are the words, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." They are "disciples" first and then the disciples are baptized because they are already disciples. Baptism is the initiation of disciples, a public declaration of this dedication to discipleship, this desire to learn and do all Jesus has commanded.

Now, can you please explain what happens if a person by faith puts his trust in Jesus Christ but it is impossible for them to get water baptized? Does God now "deem" them not saved? Let's say a person is on their death bed and receives Jesus Christ but cannot get baptized, what then?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
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