The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

reneweddaybyday · Jun 8, 2024

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. Wisdom 10:1)): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29(John 1:36 L in brackets); John 3:16f; 6:33

brightfame52 said:

QUESTION - What does it mean that God gives us life more abundantly (John 10:10)?

ANSWER - John 10 begins with Jesus addressing the Pharisees (John 9:40) with a parable or figure of speech about the authenticity of the shepherd and his care for the sheep in contrast with the inauthenticity of thieves and robbers who would harm the sheep (John 10:1–5). John adds that the audience did not understand what Jesus was saying (John 10:6), so Jesus continues down the same illustrative path with another parable to further clarify the first one, and He adds in the middle of His next parable that God gives us life “more abundantly” (John 10:10, NKJV).

Jesus first emphasizes that He is the door of the sheep (John 10:7)—He is the authentic shepherd He mentioned in the first parable (John 10:2). Jesus adds that those who enter through the door—through the authentic shepherd (or good shepherd, as He calls Himself in John 10:10)—will be saved, going in and out and finding pasture (John 10:9). With these references Jesus is explaining that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). He is the authentic shepherd, or the good shepherd who provides life (or freedom and pasture, in the parable) for His sheep.

Jesus then reiterates the contrast between Himself and the thief who comes to steal and destroy. Jesus comes to give us life more abundantly (John 10:10). He would accomplish this—as a good shepherd would—by laying His life down for His sheep (John 10:11). Jesus would lay down His own life (John 10:18) as a sacrifice for sin so that those who believe in Him would not be lost (perish) but would have eternal life (John 3:16)—God would give them life more abundantly (John 10:10).

There are many worldviews and belief systems that claim to offer a way for us to have true life, to be fulfilled, and to be like God—Satan’s first temptation of humanity offered an alternative way to be like God (Genesis 3:5). But Jesus is the authentic shepherd—the good shepherd (John 10:11) who provides the way to right relationship with the Father (John 14:6). It is only through Jesus that God gives us life more abundantly (John 10:10).

The Pharisees were essentially enslaving the people they taught. The pharisaical system was legalistic and taught that, if people adhered closely enough to the Law of Moses, then—and only then—they could participate in God’s kingdom and receive His blessing. Jesus chastises the Pharisees sternly, explaining that the Pharisees were teaching the wrong path to righteousness and life (Matthew 5:20). Jesus explained in His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5—7) that the appearance of external righteousness was not authentic righteousness and that, in order to have righteousness and life more abundantly, one needed to believe in Him (John 6:47).

In the parables of John 10, Jesus is contrasting Himself especially with the Pharisees. They were the thieves and the robbers who were harming the sheep, and He was the authentic or good shepherd through whom God gives life more abundantly (John 10:10). The Pharisees’ path was deceptive and led to death. This is why Jesus on more than one occasion referred to them as vipers (Matthew 3:7, 12:34, 23:33). Jesus’ path, on the other hand, led not only to life, but to life overflowing, life more abundantly. Jesus’ path was the authentic and true path to righteousness and abundant life. Through Him we have life more abundantly (John 10:10).
https://www.gotquestions.org/life-more-abundantly.html
.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 8, 2024

brightfame52 said:

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... you are "reasonably concluding" according to your erroneous dogma.

If you were truly interested in "reasonably concluding" according to Scripture, you would read Scripture just as the Author of Scripture has written it ... and you would believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe.

If you believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe, then John 3:36 tells you the benefit of your belief ... he that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.

If you do not believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe, then John 3:36 tells you the consequence of your unbelief ... you shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on you.

"We are responsible to decide today whom we will obey (Joshua 24:15). God wants us to choose him and life (Deuteronomy 30:15-20). God’s wrath is his final judgment and rejection of the sinner. To put off the choice is to choose not to follow Christ. Indecision is a fatal decision."

Bruce Barton

.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 8, 2024

brightfame52 said:

... brightfame52 says no need to repent.

The Lord Jesus Christ says repent:

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

...

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Peter by inspiration says repent:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Paul by inspiration says repent:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

here's another great truth from the mouth of Peter and the apostles:

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
.

Nufan · Jun 8, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

Jesus was talking to some folks who wanted to stone Him:

John 10:

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.

32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."

34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods" '?

In vs 34, Jesus referred to Psalm 82 (read it - it's only 8 verses) ... God will judge those who are unjust judges. God refers to the unjust judges as "gods" (small "g"). God called them "gods", not to bring them honor, but to confront them because they were unjust in their judgments and showed partiality to the wicked (vss 1-2) ... then God instructed them to judge rightly (vss 3-4) ... God revealed the ignorance of unjust judges (vs 5) ... God pronounced judgment on the unjust judges (vss 6-7) ... the psalm ends with Asaph's prayer (vs 8). Psalm 82 is just as true today as it was when it was written long ago by Asaph.

continuing in John 10:

35 "If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken)

36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

The point Jesus makes here is that the folks who wanted to stone Him had no problem with what was written in Psalm 82 ... so what issue did they have when Jesus stated He is the Son of God.

37 "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;

38 "but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

We know, as well as those who wanted to stone Jesus knew, that Jesus did do the works of His Father ... miracle after miracle in the presence of many witnesses ... fulfillment of prophecies concerning Messiah ... if they don't want to believe what Jesus states about Himself, believe because of the works He did.

39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

total rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus gave them every opportunity to believe ... and it was not that they could not "hear" what He was saying ... nor was it that they could not understand His words. Those who sought to stone Him flat out rejected. They heard His words ... they saw the miracles ... they rejected of their own volition.

wonderful truths to lay hold of.

God is so good to us!

.

These quotes are also what would tie in to the Is the deification or sanctification or theosis. In no way, am I saying that we are gods?But in a sense this is what jesus was also referring to us as being god. In other words we go through the process to become one with christ divinity Essentially, what's referred to as a saint. Or for my reform brothers and sisters the chosen elect.

Nufan · Jun 8, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

I agree with what you're saying here.Everything you're saying is correct.Although what I was pointing out was the part pertaining the sanctification.Here's the particular bible passage

36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

Christ is calling us all to be sanctified through him.Here is the jewish understanding of sanctification.

We are called upon to follow in God's footsteps…we should act in such a manner that we are known by the same 'names' – merciful, gracious, righteous, pious and so on – by which God is known…. The restrictions mentioned above are also intended to contribute to our sense of serenity and spiritual well-being.

Christian view of sanctification

Sanctification (or in its verb form, sanctify) literally means "to set apart for special use or purpose", that is, to make holy or sacred (compare Latin: sanctus). Therefore, sanctification refers to the state or process of being set apart, i.e. "made holy", as a vessel, full of the Holy Spirit of God.

This is on theosis

"making divine"), is a transformative process whose aim is likeness to or union with God, as taught by the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Eastern Orthodox Church; the same concept is also found in the Latin Church of the Catholic Church, where it is termed "divinization".

This is on deification

Apotheosis, also called divinization or deification, is the glorification of a subject to divine levels and, commonly, the treatment of a human being, any other living thing, or an abstract idea in the likeness of a deity.

This is christ atonment

Prepare Yourself Spiritually. The Atonement is the sacrifice Jesus Christ made to help us overcome sin, adversity, and death.

2 Peter 1:3-4: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.”

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

Hath Perfected them forever!

One of the Blessings of the Death of Christ, applied to every sinner He offered Himself for, they are by His Death alone "Perfected forever"

Heb 10:14

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So His one offering saved them, they can't be lost forever,

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

Nufan said:

False comment, Christs sacrifice took away sins whether a person repents or not, its by no means dependent upon the doings of man, thats borderline blasphemy,

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

nope ... this thread is about brightfame52 ... which is why you rip verses from the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed the verses and you then re-write Scripture in your futile attempt to align Scripture to your dogma ... which is eisegesis.

Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html

Instead of reading Scripture through the lens of your dogma, try reading your dogma through the lens of Scripture ... then you would understand Scripture just as the Author has written it and you would understand the error of your dogma.
.

This thread is to celebrate what Christs accomplishment via His Death has accomplished, and you oppose it

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
.

the death of Christ bequeaths an inheritance upon them He died for ! And you oppose it

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

clearly, if someone believes in the Lord Jesus Christ, he or she will not die in their sins.

... re-writing Scripture because you do not believe Scripture as written:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Just read what is written and believe it ... just as the Author of Scripture has written it ... no need to add man's words to God's Word.

... "them He died for" ... the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world, brightfame52. You know the verses and if you need a reminder, see Post 2698.

Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14 relate to the comers (Heb 10:1) ... the worshippers (Heb 10:2).

Hebrews 10:10 contrasts the offerings under the old covenant which could never take away sins and had to be made over and over with the one offering of the Lord Jesus Christ under the new covenant. The Lord Jesus Christ does not get back up on the cross over and over and over.

The Lord Jesus Christ died once:

Romans 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

the death of the Lord Jesus Christ once is sufficient to cover all the sins of all descendants of Adam.

According to Hebrews 10:1, the descendants of Adam who are the comers are sanctified (Heb 10:10) and begin to be brought to a state of completion (Heb 10:14).

According to Hebrews 10:2, the descendants of Adam who are the worshippers are sanctified (Heb 10:10) and begin to be brought to a state of completion (Heb 10:14).

The descendants of Adam who do not come and who do not worship are not sanctified because there is no other offering that can take away sin ... there is only One Offering for sin ... the Lord Jesus Christ.
.

More opposition to the Truth

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. Wisdom 10:1)): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29(John 1:36 L in brackets); John 3:16f; 6:33

QUESTION - What does it mean that God gives us life more abundantly (John 10:10)?

ANSWER - John 10 begins with Jesus addressing the Pharisees (John 9:40) with a parable or figure of speech about the authenticity of the shepherd and his care for the sheep in contrast with the inauthenticity of thieves and robbers who would harm the sheep (John 10:1–5). John adds that the audience did not understand what Jesus was saying (John 10:6), so Jesus continues down the same illustrative path with another parable to further clarify the first one, and He adds in the middle of His next parable that God gives us life “more abundantly” (John 10:10, NKJV).

Jesus first emphasizes that He is the door of the sheep (John 10:7)—He is the authentic shepherd He mentioned in the first parable (John 10:2). Jesus adds that those who enter through the door—through the authentic shepherd (or good shepherd, as He calls Himself in John 10:10)—will be saved, going in and out and finding pasture (John 10:9). With these references Jesus is explaining that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one comes to the Father except through Him (John 14:6). He is the authentic shepherd, or the good shepherd who provides life (or freedom and pasture, in the parable) for His sheep.

Jesus then reiterates the contrast between Himself and the thief who comes to steal and destroy. Jesus comes to give us life more abundantly (John 10:10). He would accomplish this—as a good shepherd would—by laying His life down for His sheep (John 10:11). Jesus would lay down His own life (John 10:18) as a sacrifice for sin so that those who believe in Him would not be lost (perish) but would have eternal life (John 3:16)—God would give them life more abundantly (John 10:10).

There are many worldviews and belief systems that claim to offer a way for us to have true life, to be fulfilled, and to be like God—Satan’s first temptation of humanity offered an alternative way to be like God (Genesis 3:5). But Jesus is the authentic shepherd—the good shepherd (John 10:11) who provides the way to right relationship with the Father (John 14:6). It is only through Jesus that God gives us life more abundantly (John 10:10).

The Pharisees were essentially enslaving the people they taught. The pharisaical system was legalistic and taught that, if people adhered closely enough to the Law of Moses, then—and only then—they could participate in God’s kingdom and receive His blessing. Jesus chastises the Pharisees sternly, explaining that the Pharisees were teaching the wrong path to righteousness and life (Matthew 5:20). Jesus explained in His Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5—7) that the appearance of external righteousness was not authentic righteousness and that, in order to have righteousness and life more abundantly, one needed to believe in Him (John 6:47).

In the parables of John 10, Jesus is contrasting Himself especially with the Pharisees. They were the thieves and the robbers who were harming the sheep, and He was the authentic or good shepherd through whom God gives life more abundantly (John 10:10). The Pharisees’ path was deceptive and led to death. This is why Jesus on more than one occasion referred to them as vipers (Matthew 3:7, 12:34, 23:33). Jesus’ path, on the other hand, led not only to life, but to life overflowing, life more abundantly. Jesus’ path was the authentic and true path to righteousness and abundant life. Through Him we have life more abundantly (John 10:10).
https://www.gotquestions.org/life-more-abundantly.html
.

Christ death and resurrection actually gives life, and you oppose it

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

... nope ... you are "reasonably concluding" according to your erroneous dogma.

If you were truly interested in "reasonably concluding" according to Scripture, you would read Scripture just as the Author of Scripture has written it ... and you would believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe.

If you believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe, then John 3:36 tells you the benefit of your belief ... he that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life.

If you do not believe what the Author of Scripture tells you to believe, then John 3:36 tells you the consequence of your unbelief ... you shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on you.

"We are responsible to decide today whom we will obey (Joshua 24:15). God wants us to choose him and life (Deuteronomy 30:15-20). God’s wrath is his final judgment and rejection of the sinner. To put off the choice is to choose not to follow Christ. Indecision is a fatal decision."

Bruce Barton

.

Cant nobody Christ died for be under Gods wrath, Gods wrath for them has been propitiated 1 Jn 2:1-2

brightfame52 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

... brightfame52 says no need to repent.

The Lord Jesus Christ says repent:

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

...

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Peter by inspiration says repent:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

...

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Paul by inspiration says repent:

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

here's another great truth from the mouth of Peter and the apostles:

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
.

Its as plain as day, Christs death took away sins for them He died for 1 Jn 3:5

And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. And you oppose it

reneweddaybyday · Jun 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

what does God's Word tell you?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Object of faith which God has provided for mankind is the only begotten Son of God ... He alone is the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through [Him] (John 14:6) ... salvation is in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12) ... He alone is the one and only Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5).
.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 9, 2024

Nufan said:

I believe Jesus was reproving those who wanted to stone Him. Jesus quoted from Psalm 82 which was written by Asaph and which reproved unjust judges. The folks who wanted to stone Jesus were incorrect in their condemnation of Him and Jesus pointed them to the Scripture which reproved them.

Nufan said:

I do not believe John 10:34 supports your claim.

The other verses in your Post 2620 support your claim:

1 Corinthians 6:17: “But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”

John 6:56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

John 17:22-23: The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one. I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me, even as we are one.

2 Peter 1:3-4: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.”

One day we will be fully and completely perfected ... when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2). Until then, God works within us bringing forth fruit in our lives (Gal 5:22-23).
.

Nufan · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

I believe Jesus was reproving those who wanted to stone Him. Jesus quoted from Psalm 82 which was written by Asaph and which reproved unjust judges. The folks who wanted to stone Jesus were incorrect in their condemnation of Him and Jesus pointed them to the Scripture which reproved them.

I do not believe John 10:34 supports your claim.

The other verses in your Post 2620 support your claim:

1 Corinthians 6:17: “But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”

John 6:56: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

John 17:22-23: The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one. I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me, even as we are one.

2 Peter 1:3-4: “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature.”

One day we will be fully and completely perfected ... when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2). Until then, God works within us bringing forth fruit in our lives (Gal 5:22-23).
.

Well, I think you may be correct there.I just wanted to tie in a possibility.

Cameron143 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

what does God's Word tell you?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The Object of faith which God has provided for mankind is the only begotten Son of God ... He alone is the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through [Him] (John 14:6) ... salvation is in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12) ... He alone is the one and only Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus (1 Tim 2:5).
.

So it's unbelief and not sin that Jesus came to save His people from? Is a failure to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ not a sin?

reneweddaybyday · Jun 9, 2024

brightfame52 said:

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world ... all descendants of Adam ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The them that are sanctified spoken of in Hebrews 10:14 refers to the comers spoken of in vs 1 and the worshippers spoken of in vs 2.

Under the old covenant, God made provision for the covering of sins through the various offerings described under the old covenant, but if the Israelites chose not to partake, their sins were not covered.

The offerings under the old covenant were a shadow of good things to come ... the offerings were not the very image of the things (Heb 10:1). The oferings pointed to Messiah ... the One Offering which would cover all sin.

Same situation in our day and time under the new covenant ... the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ is sufficient to cover all the sins of all mankind ... but if someone's erroneous dogma tells folks they don't need to come ... their sins will not be covered. Not because the offering is in any way deficient, but because they believe the lie that they do not need to come ... that they do not need to repent ... that they do not need to believe.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

reneweddaybyday · Jun 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 John 2:2). When the Bible says that Christ was the sacrifice for all sin, it does not mean that all sin was automatically forgiven. It simply means that the offering to secure forgiveness for the whole world has been made; whether that offering actually results in the forgiveness of any individual is another matter, because the offering must be accepted by faith. Our way back to God has been prepared by Christ; the question now is, we will avail ourselves of the opportunity?

Christ died for all sin; that is, His sacrifice was completely sufficient to pay for the sins of the entire world. But forgiveness only comes to an individual when he or she repents and believes (see Mark 1:15). Until we accept (by faith) the provision of God in Christ, then we are still in our sins. Those who die in unbelief die in all their sin—they are unforgiven liars, murderers, adulterers, etc. (Revelation 21:8). Those who trust in Christ for their salvation do not die in sin; they die in Christ, with all sins forgiven.
https://www.gotquestions.org/sin-of-unbelief.html

"Those who trust in Christ for their salvation do not die in sin; they die in Christ, with all sins forgiven."
.

Cameron143 · Jun 9, 2024

reneweddaybyday said:

You are implying things into my question. The Bible says Jesus came to save us from our sins. It also says that He bore our sins in His body. His death is proof that our sins were laid o and Him. Unbelief is just one of a veritable plethora of sins we have committed. Why is it singled out? Or could it be that it is merely that God is simply stating a fact? The condition of a saved person is belief and they are therefore in Christ and not under condemnation, while the opposite is true for those who aren't saved?

The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member