How do you get saved?
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My understanding of the discussion at hand was that believing and being baptized, by so doing, are what saves the doer. If being saved actually occurs after that, and not immediately upon/from it, then the doing isn't and can't be what caused it. Instead, I think the verse is referring to attributes that come to someone as a result of salvation - with belief and the desire to be baptized as being some of those attributes - but not cause.
I think the being saved that is in view, was meant in the same sense as the verse below states it. Notice the "unto the end, the same shall be saved" - the "shall be saved" is future tense. It is telling us that the being saved is of the last day (the end)- that being saved in that context is to be saved (escaping) from the retribution of God on the last day. It is also the same future tense for those who will be damned in Mat 16:16. I think "shall be saved" (future tense) is found repeatedly throughout the New Testament. However, those who do escape, are only of those who have also already become saved during their lifetime, but not through their believing nor by their human baptism, otherwise, it would have had to be stated as being immediate and not future. That is, by being stated as future, believing and baptism are eliminated as the cause of salvation, but not as salvation's effect.
[Mat 24:13 KJV] 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
I think the being saved that is in view, was meant in the same sense as the verse below states it. Notice the "unto the end, the same shall be saved" - the "shall be saved" is future tense. It is telling us that the being saved is of the last day (the end)- that being saved in that context is to be saved (escaping) from the retribution of God on the last day. It is also the same future tense for those who will be damned in Mat 16:16. I think "shall be saved" (future tense) is found repeatedly throughout the New Testament. However, those who do escape, are only of those who have also already become saved during their lifetime, but not through their believing nor by their human baptism, otherwise, it would have had to be stated as being immediate and not future. That is, by being stated as future, believing and baptism are eliminated as the cause of salvation, but not as salvation's effect.
[Mat 24:13 KJV] 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Salvation is saving one from their sins. You become saved after, not before, nor during, nor halfway through the process, which is culminated by being baptized. Baptism, is an act of obedience which is the result of your belief, faith, and acknowledgement, sorrow, and decision to turn from your sins, having a change of heart based on your conviction, subsequent to the aforementioned other articles.
Your citing of the Matthew 24 scripture, is out of context, having nothing to do with the salvation process which had not even been formally established since Jesus was still alive and NT salvation criteria was not yet in effect. If you read on from that point in Mat 24, it's clear that it's discussing the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Read the parallel gospels as well for clarity. Also, read a bit of the Josephus account of the fall of Jerusalem.
Your citing of the Matthew 24 scripture, is out of context, having nothing to do with the salvation process which had not even been formally established since Jesus was still alive and NT salvation criteria was not yet in effect. If you read on from that point in Mat 24, it's clear that it's discussing the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Read the parallel gospels as well for clarity. Also, read a bit of the Josephus account of the fall of Jerusalem.
How someone becomes saved is explained in Romans 8:2 below. There was no process involved, except that Jesus took Paul from under the law of sin and death and placed him under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, with no contribution from anyone for it except for Christ to include Paul himself - by that, was Paul was saved, and by that, are all whom God saves saved.
The Mat. 24 verse reference was to demonstrate what the "shall be saved" means - which is the last day. In that regard,
it has everything to do with what we were speaking.
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Okay, I can see that we're not going to communicate/agree on this so no sense in continuing further.
The Mat. 24 verse reference was to demonstrate what the "shall be saved" means - which is the last day. In that regard,
it has everything to do with what we were speaking.
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Okay, I can see that we're not going to communicate/agree on this so no sense in continuing further.
The only proper conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*
Hence, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
" 2 Tim 2:15
Hence, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
" 2 Tim 2:15
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Context...
Man did nothing to deserve God's willingness to make a way of salvation. It is up to man whether to accept or reject God's established plan as detailed in the word. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
Titus 3:3-6
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Man did nothing to deserve God's willingness to make a way of salvation. It is up to man whether to accept or reject God's established plan as detailed in the word. (Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16)
Titus 3:3-6
For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
This is no laughing matter. Instead of properly harmonizing scripture with scripture before reaching the proper conclusion on doctrine, you instead, isolate pet verses, build doctrine on them then try to force the rest of scripture to "conform" to your biased conclusion on doctrine. That's called flawed hermeneutics which results in eisegesis.
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Since you disagree. Please tell me what this scripture means if not what it says:
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41
"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41
