Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

The KJV has it "the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction" ... the question is who fitted them? Nobody starts out a murderer though they may have the propensity for it. We have to learn how to fight, to kill, we need to be trained. We even have to learn how to lie successfully, how to seduce, nobody is born drunk or a drug addict. These be the things that fit us for destruction.

Yes logic demands, that's what I said to you. You are going by human logic. Calvin reluctantly admitted that all logic dictates that if God chose some for to be saved then He must have passed over all others. It's human logic.

It is only true if predestination and election are doctrines that apply per se to salvation. They do not. They apply to our being conformed to the image of the Beloved, God's Son. We all want to be like Jesus, this is a wonderful doctrine for it shows us that it is God's will that we should.

Once again we are chosen in Christ before the world was founded to be a people for the praise of God's glorious grace. Again wonderful, we all want to tell of His wonders.

... none of this excludes a single soul from being saved. Indeed we are to be a city set upon a hill, not to exclude but to be a beacon of hope for whoever is weary and sad, in need of shelter. We are the church the city of refuge. THAT'S what we are predestined and chosen for.

Few there be that find the narrow gate but those who do God sends down to the broad way that leads to destruction to pull men off it and lead them to the narrow way as happens in revival. The Great Awakenings.

Now I said these were tricky scriptures that need careful consideration. You mention the Potter and the clay. But there is nothing wrong with the clay when it was created, it was perfectly good for the purpose it was created for. The decisions concerning how to manage, how to fashion the clay comes after the fall [we are speaking about men, not clay]

God is still King, He still has charge of His now fallen creation. He has as Potter to decide how He will make use of His spoiled clay.

Have you ever tried to plumb the depth of evil in man? men like Hitler or Stalin or Mao ze Dong? .... Judas Iscariot? Pharoah? what makes them what they are? In every case it is ambition, greed, greed for power. Those things are not of God, not created by Him or in any way imparted by Him. How and why God chooses these men to be what they become is a deep, deep mystery in God Himself. He only can see what is the heart of every man.

But all these things are God's will in the light of an already fallen creation. Paul speaks about a good and perfect will of God which we are to seek.

Lastly you talk about Elijah's remnant. But with Mt Carmel and the ministries of Elisha and King Jehu the remnant became the whole house of Israel. They kept the covenant alive and in operation.

That's nicely put @Evmur old son.

long time no see ... are you well?

credited to, reckoned to, accounted to, imputed to all mean the same thing that the righteousness that Abraham received from God was given to him through through the instrument of faith which was given to him by grace. It is God who gives man knowledge which is faith and that is why He is the Author and Finisher of it (Heb 12:2).

Paul clearly stated that in the preaching of the Gospel the righteousness of God is revealed (Rom 1:17) and continued to describe how God justly hands men over to the evil that they love unto their greater condemnation and demonstration of His righteousness (Rom 3:5) which is most clearly seen at the cross where Christ satisfied that which an eternity in Hell could never do for His people.

The Word of God is a double edged sword which cuts both ways. It is an aroma of life unto life to some (the elect) and to others (the reprobate) it is an aroma of death unto death (2 Cor 2:15-16). This is why Christ told the people of His time that they were more accountable than Sodom and Gomorrah for they saw His miracles and heard His Gospel but never repented and the same warning needs to be given to all who hear the Gospel today!

what precedes the new birth is spiritual death and blindness wherein man who lost the image and likeness of God in the Fall became cursed in Adam, a slave to sin and Satan, who blinds people from seeing the truth and believing unless they are born again in Christ who is the Image of God who restores His image in His people which is true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10).

but how can one have faith when they are dead as you confirmed?

How can one believe and choose the kingdom of God if they can't even see it unless they are first born again as Christ confirmed? (John 3:3).

Sadly, because you do not yet know who God truly is, you therefore do not yet know who man truly is and that it is impossible for man to do anything to be saved (Mark 10:26-27) unless God is the first cause by granting the gift of faith through the preaching of the Gospel.

Psa_119:49 Remember the word to Your servant, Upon which You have caused me to hope.

2Co 4:6 For it is the God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Until God humbles you to submit to this plain truth of Scripture you will remain judicially blinded to the truth that salivation belongs to the Lord (Psa 3:8) and not the choice of man as you foolishly assume.

As I have already explained, God decreed by secondary causes that sin should enter the world for His greater glory.

Man could never truly know that he was created for good or what good was until he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Abraham can then boast before God, can't he?

1Co 1:26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
1Co 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,
1Co 1:29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

It seems like you have not yet realised that man is as described by Ezekiel in the valley of dry bones which did not live until God had spoken to them through the prophesy of the Prophet in the same manner that God uses the Gospel to bring back from the dead His people today.

Eze 37:4 Again He said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!
Eze 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: "Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live.

Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.

God first chooses, then calls, then justifies those He glorifies. This is known as the golden chain of redemption because all of the glory goes to Him alone!

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

the many that are called are those to whom the Gospel is preached but out of all those who hear there are very few who are saved as Christ confirmed in the parable of the sower and His quote below.

Mat_7:13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Mat_7:14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

I disagree with what you wrote, Evmur.

Gentiles are grafted into Christ not the nation of Israel.

Romans 11:17
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive,
were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich
root of the olive tree.

The root is Christ and the Gentiles were grafted in among them and not
into Israel.

In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile.

The nation of Israel was certainly grafted out of Christ.

The letter to the Romans was written to show why Israel failed.

Romans 9:11-13
For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad,
so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works
but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.”
Just as it is written: “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Here is where Paul explains why Israel failed.

"according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls"

God's choice was salvation through faith not by works, not by legalism.

God has called everyone to be believe in His Son for righteousness and not by works.

Israel persistently pursued a path of self righteousness via legal works.

Israel can only be grafted back in, if and only if, they believe in Jesus.

It is only true if predestination and election are doctrines that apply per se to salvation. They do not. They apply to our being conformed to the image of the Beloved, God's Son. We all want to be like Jesus, this is a wonderful doctrine for it shows us that it is God's will that we should.

Lastly you talk about Elijah's remnant. But with Mt Carmel and the ministries of Elisha and King Jehu the remnant became the whole house of Israel. They kept the covenant alive and in operation.

It seems like you have not yet realised that man is as described by Ezekiel in the valley of dry bones which did not live until God had spoken to them through the prophesy of the Prophet in the same manner that God uses the Gospel to bring back from the dead His people today.

Eze 37:4 Again He said to me, "Prophesy to these bones, and say to them, 'O dry bones, hear the word of the LORD!
Eze 37:5 Thus says the Lord GOD to these bones: "Surely I will cause breath to enter into you, and you shall live.

Eze 37:10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.

It's clear you are an eschatology buff and have strong opinions. It seems to me that it's been a safer bet to side with the non-sensationalists over the years.

I haven't been keeping up. Did anything major happen by 5/18/24 (or whatever the date) after the aleph was seen in the sky 40 days earlier?

Evil men and Satan have a free will too. And they do....evil. On purpose.....to serve their purpose. An evil purpose.

but how can one have faith when they are dead as you confirmed?

None of that looks or tastes like scripture truth. Where does the scripture say God decreed by secondary causes that man should sin?

It's what men suppose, it is human thinking. The scripture say "Thou shalt not" that was [and is] God's decree.

Do you have electricity in your home? do you allow your children to play with the wires or the electric box? don't you tell them to leave it alone, don't you insulate?

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was I'm sure necessary to creation. But God strictly charged the man to live it alone.

Yes, I think the Iranian President's helicopter went down and he died. Someone described that event like this

Yes, I think the Iranian President's helicopter went down and he died. Someone described that event like this