Predestination is misunderstood...
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The point Jesus was making? ...
Their sons/followers could not cast out demons.
In essence, Jesus was saying...
You say I cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub?
So what about your followers?
Your followers can not even do that much!
And, by saying you are the true ones from God?
Blasphemy! Why?
For you are making God to be inferior to the one you say is of the devil!
(that's why its blasphemy of the Holy Spirit)
The point Jesus was making? ...
Their sons/followers could not cast out demons.
In essence, Jesus was saying...
You say I cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub?
So what about your followers?
Your followers can not even do that much!
And, by saying you are the true ones from God?
Blasphemy! Why?
For you are making God to be inferior to the one you say is of the devil!
(that's why its blasphemy of the Holy Spirit)
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right ... when I first brought up the record in Luke, I stated ...
The point is that God worked miracles through Moses and Aaron while pharaoh's magicians used their enchantments which had the appearance of miraculous works ... but they were not miracles. They were deceptive works. And at some point, the magicians were unable to do the things God works through Moses/Aaron.
Jesus cast out demons and people were healed of demon possession.
The fakers are the ones who will say to Jesus Lord Lord (Matt 7:22) and Jesus will reply I never knew you (Matt 7:23).
regarding the record concerning legion ... the man's name was not legion. The man was possessed by many demons and the demons called themselves legion ... not sure if you were saying the man's name was legion – I may have mis-read your comment ...
Yes, Jesus gave them power Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases (Luke 9:1).
btw ... I did look into the issue concerning exorcism. I found some info in Flavius Josephus, Book VIII, Chapter 2 ... and some mention concerning Solomon ... that Solomon had been influenced by the idolatry / superstition of his heathen wives.
However, we do have to go by what Jesus stated ... by whom do your sons cast them out? It might not have been common practice, but it appears there was something going on in that regard. If not, what was Jesus alluding to with His question?
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When Jesus told them He cast out devils with the finger of God, it was a reference to Exodus 8 when Moses told Aaron to stretch out thy rod, and smite the dust of the land, that it may become lice throughout all the land of Egypt (Ex 8:16) ... the magicians of Egypt could not replicate what God had done so they told pharaoh this is the finger of God (Ex 8:19).
The pharisees would have been very knowledgeable of the reference to the finger of God ... and that Jesus was telling them if they were casting out demons differently than He was casting out demons then they were the ones who were casting them out by beelzebub.
They refused to believe Him and they refused to believe that the kingdom of God is come unto you.
The point is that God worked miracles through Moses and Aaron while pharaoh's magicians used their enchantments which had the appearance of miraculous works ... but they were not miracles. They were deceptive works. And at some point, the magicians were unable to do the things God works through Moses/Aaron.
Jesus cast out demons and people were healed of demon possession.
The fakers are the ones who will say to Jesus Lord Lord (Matt 7:22) and Jesus will reply I never knew you (Matt 7:23).
regarding the record concerning legion ... the man's name was not legion. The man was possessed by many demons and the demons called themselves legion ... not sure if you were saying the man's name was legion – I may have mis-read your comment ...
Yes, Jesus gave them power Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases (Luke 9:1).
btw ... I did look into the issue concerning exorcism. I found some info in Flavius Josephus, Book VIII, Chapter 2 ... and some mention concerning Solomon ... that Solomon had been influenced by the idolatry / superstition of his heathen wives.
However, we do have to go by what Jesus stated ... by whom do your sons cast them out? It might not have been common practice, but it appears there was something going on in that regard. If not, what was Jesus alluding to with His question?
.
The Pharisees would have boasted that its by God they cast them out. But they went dead silent before Jesus' challenge.
There is a reason its called blasphemy of the Spirit. For they claimed to be the ones of God. Yet, were attributing to Jesus something demonic and inferior while Jesus was doing the superior work.
There is a reason its called blasphemy of the Spirit. For they claimed to be the ones of God. Yet, were attributing to Jesus something demonic and inferior while Jesus was doing the superior work.
when Jesus finished addressing the folks who were seeking a sign from Him (Luke 11:16), a certain Pharisee besought him to dine with him: and he went in, and sat down to meat (Luke 11:37).
Jesus called them (the scribes, pharisees and lawyers present) on the carpet for their hypocrisy and false teaching. The scribes, pharisees and lawyers provoked Him:
Luke 11:
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.
They were not interested in learning any truth from the Lord Jesus Christ. They only wanted Him to say something for which they could accuse Him.
then, the very next verse states:
Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Jesus warned the people of the hypocrisy of the pharisees.
.
Jesus called them (the scribes, pharisees and lawyers present) on the carpet for their hypocrisy and false teaching. The scribes, pharisees and lawyers provoked Him:
Luke 11:
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.
They were not interested in learning any truth from the Lord Jesus Christ. They only wanted Him to say something for which they could accuse Him.
then, the very next verse states:
Luke 12:1 In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
Jesus warned the people of the hypocrisy of the pharisees.
.
Well... you're out to disprove me.
That's been settled.
That's been settled.
I've presented my current point of few fairy extensively ultimately on another thread as you requested. I don't think your unexplained view makes any sense. I'd discuss it with you if you could explain how and why you think it does make sense. But probably not on this thread unless you have changed your mind about doing so here. In which case I'll paste my work posted on the other thread here and we can get started.
What would you like to do?
Maybe this system does not flag and notify those who are mentioned in a post in this manner: @Genez. As I recall I flagged you and @sawdust and @reneweddaybyday to inform you that I'd started a new thread as you and eventually as @sawdust suggested. Here's the link:
Luke 11:19 - who are "your sons"?
Luke 11:19 - who are "your sons"?
Yup...
Law and sin preaching is for the 'unspiritual' unbeliever...
That is why we did not need to first be regenerated before believing the Gospel.
Its after we are saved. After we are regenerated. Only then, we are to start learning Bible doctrine.
Bible doctrine is what the 'natural man' can not comprehend...
But the 'natural man'' sure knows he is a sinner! And....
Its historical fact that Jesus died on the Cross.
The natural man has all he needs to step over the line into salvation...
Law and sin preaching is for the 'unspiritual' unbeliever...
That is why we did not need to first be regenerated before believing the Gospel.
Its after we are saved. After we are regenerated. Only then, we are to start learning Bible doctrine.
Bible doctrine is what the 'natural man' can not comprehend...
But the 'natural man'' sure knows he is a sinner! And....
Its historical fact that Jesus died on the Cross.
The natural man has all he needs to step over the line into salvation...
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Yet now .. even now... we are called a new creation in Christ.
This is phase one.
The resurrection will be phase two.
We are a new spiritual species.
No one before the church age had the permanently indwelling Holy Spirit who transforms our souls into the image of Christ.
That is... Transformed if we walk in the Spirit, and not our flesh.
Its vital. It takes sound doctrine for the transformation to keep advancing.
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
2 Corinthians 3:18
grace and peace ..............
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