Mike Winger's "Why I think Calvinism is Unbiblical"

Paul told us the elect, the chosen people (the Jews), were grafted out. (Romans 11)

Those that never knew God were grafted in, these then became the elect. (Romans 11)

Then Paul warned the Gentiles, the newly elect, chosen people of God, below.

Romans 10:19-21
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

Would you now propose that the Gentiles, the elect, cannot be grafted out?

That would be a direct contradiction of chapter 11 of the letter to the Romans.

Tell me your not saying what I think your saying.

You have made a serious mistake.

You stated, "Calvinism is the biblical doctrine of salvation".

Here is the simplest statement of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

How can Calvinism possibly be the doctrine of salvation?

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart
that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Seriously maximar, what has Calvinism got to do with salvation?

Just confess Jesus Christ, the alpha and the omega, of everything that CHRISTianity proclaims.

I've just looked CALVINISM up, now; And it sounds terrible!

In a double word Double Predestination. Limited Atonement [the L of TULIP] is set to shore up Calvin' s doctrine on double predestination.

Predestination and Election should not be applied to salvation at all, our predestination and election is unto the church, to be the body of Christ, the people of God. it is not exclusive to others being saved it is inclusive to others being saved.

It makes the WIDER mercy possible.

I've just looked CALVINISM up, now; And it sounds terrible!

So how are we supposed to be saved, if we don't believe in Calvinism?!

Unless you believe in Calvin and confess his name you cannot be saved.

maxamir apparently characterizes not being Calvinist as "Those who consistently have faith in their faith rather than a God given faith in the person and wok of Christ"
but it seems a better characterization would be "those who place their faith in the person and work of Christ". this is how Calvinism couches limited atonement. The claim is that no one can have faith unless God wills it. Yet scripture says that God is not willing that anyone should perish, so it would follow that if anyone does perish, it is not God's will. In my view, unbelief is disobeying God's commandment to believe in Christ which is believing in the God as Father because that is Who Jesus revealed as God to the world. So, in my view, "unless the Father draws you," means that we come to the Father (not just "God") through the Son, by the Spirit, hence Salvation, by Grace through Faith. That is, the means to God is through God, by God, and we've only to believe and trust that as true.

I am not a Calvinist and I know that if I were to die this moment I would go to Heaven where God is at because I am saved.

I believe that anyone can "see" the Father, as Jesus revealed Him to the world, and once we do, that is the moment we know Him as He knows us.

It is too bad that the quintessential type provided by Christ to teach us is lost on the Church today.
And under scrutiny, the hyper-Calvinists are dead wrong....obviously.

Unbelief is willfully refusing to drink the cup of marriage betrothal offered by Christ Jesus, likewise the cup symbolizing the entering into the New Covenant.

These cups....

Luk 22:17
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

How many people do you know that make a free will choice to refuse the offer of marriage (and redemption) that the Bridegroom has made also of His own free will (and at great cost and Personal sacrifice)?
Furthermore, how many can plead ignorance at this point in history? Bibles are FREELY available, and there are living breathing Israelites right now in the land of Israel.

IMO God always has a witness, and is always calling. Its just that few care to respond.

Rev 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

It’s not about a man named Calvin or a flower acronym. It’s about what the Bible says.

why do you twist what I said?

I hope you will let the Bible speak for itself. The Bible is not what Calvin says; so then, stop obsessing about Calvin. What does the Bible say? It is written.

The problem was not John Calvin. The problem was the "ism: associated with his teaching. The over-emphasis on the "Elect" or Election
is man's Selection of who is or is not saved? That is the game no man should be playing.

Faith, hope, and Love these three. Remain, the greatest is Love. Yet our Calvinist elites have changed the elect of God to the Selection of man.

I follow the script Paul presented and Peter confirmed what Paul wrote was doctrine.

I will not belong to any church denomination or for that matter, any interpretation of the scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

Only the shed blood of Jesus Christ can atone for our appalling bad behavior.

Paul warned the Gentiles that they could be grafted out just as the Jews had been (Romans 11).

Nor do I believe that mankind has a perfect free will.

According to Paul the mechanism of our salvation was a mystery.

Romans 11
For God has shut up all in disobedience, so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches,
both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!

so you do not agree that unless you believe in Calvinism, you are cursed?

I did see the answer to this question and I knew that is what it was going to be, but I just wanted to add that I did read a post a little while ago (a couple of weeks back, maybe?) that basically asserted that anyone who doesn't believe the 5 points of Calvinism is essentially not saved. That same person said they doubt that anyone who denies Calvinistic thought knows Jesus personally. So there are some who believe that. Sadly...

I guarantee that there will be many proud Calvinists in Hell. You are not saved by what you have in your head but what you have in your heart which is only given to men by grace alone, though faith alone, in Christ alone, as revealed in the Scriptures alone and to the glory of God alone!

Perhaps we can untangle the order of faith and believing. It doesn't seem that it is possible to have faith without believing but, apparently, it is possible to believe without having faith. So, these must be distinctly different conditions although they may appear similar on the surface. And, since the central idea at the crux of this argument is the assertion that no one can believe without first being given faith, then examininghow faith and belief work, whether together or separately, might provide a clearer understanding of where belief actually (has to come from? has to go to?) in order for it to be bona fide faith. I mean I can believe something and be wrong and, if I have faith in that belief, then it follows that, according to scriptural definition of faith (the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen- Hebrews 11:1) I would believe it even if I don't actually see it and, at the least, it is evidence of something that I hope for.
Personally, I believe the key to this answer is "in the Name."