Were Nephilim (Gen 6) judged differently by God?
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Translating to the same words ≠ having the same meaning. For example, Adam is called "the son of God"...obviously not meaninghe was Jesus. You have made the same assumption with another phrase.
Your strongest argument for the bene elohim not being angels is that they refer to a future group after Job's time. Unfortunately, that's inconsistent with the past-tense language surrounding vs 7. Also, Isaiah 53 is prophetically quoting the future Jewish remnant looking back on the sacrifice of Jesus. It is correctly written in the past tense because it is a future group recalling the past.
Virtually all the time-language in Scripture is anthropomorphic. Furthermore, you're simply asserting the B-theory of time as true without justifying it.
As for the location of the meeting in Job 1, the details strongly imply it is in heaven for many reasons. For example, (1) God didn't leave His place to come meet others...others left their place to come meet the God (vs 6). (2) "Earth" is spoken of different place, apart from where the meeting is happening (vs 7-8). (3) This "presenting" language has royal overtones and is commonly used when people come to the palace of a King (vs 6). (4) It is consistent with Psalm 89:5-7, where we see God's angels taking council in heaven (vs 5-7). (5) Satan is part of the group that approaches God (vs 1). To ignore all the implicit details of a heavenly scene is telling.
Job says the bene elohim were present when the foundations of the earth were made (creation-day 3). That was before any humans existed. Angels were present at creation according to Job 38:7.
If you can justify these things and show any indication that the bene elohim were humans, then I could go on about how the Bible mentions the sexual sin of angels after Genesis.
Your strongest argument for the bene elohim not being angels is that they refer to a future group after Job's time. Unfortunately, that's inconsistent with the past-tense language surrounding vs 7. Also, Isaiah 53 is prophetically quoting the future Jewish remnant looking back on the sacrifice of Jesus. It is correctly written in the past tense because it is a future group recalling the past.
Virtually all the time-language in Scripture is anthropomorphic. Furthermore, you're simply asserting the B-theory of time as true without justifying it.
As for the location of the meeting in Job 1, the details strongly imply it is in heaven for many reasons. For example, (1) God didn't leave His place to come meet others...others left their place to come meet the God (vs 6). (2) "Earth" is spoken of different place, apart from where the meeting is happening (vs 7-8). (3) This "presenting" language has royal overtones and is commonly used when people come to the palace of a King (vs 6). (4) It is consistent with Psalm 89:5-7, where we see God's angels taking council in heaven (vs 5-7). (5) Satan is part of the group that approaches God (vs 1). To ignore all the implicit details of a heavenly scene is telling.
Job says the bene elohim were present when the foundations of the earth were made (creation-day 3). That was before any humans existed. Angels were present at creation according to Job 38:7.
If you can justify these things and show any indication that the bene elohim were humans, then I could go on about how the Bible mentions the sexual sin of angels after Genesis.
If I am correct in assuming, you are referring to the angels in the Book of Jude. This is how it reads in the KJV....and I will highlight some key points.....
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers #1defile the flesh, #2despise dominion, and #3 speak evil of dignities.
The "certain men crept in unawares" are men at the time of Jude's writing. The angels, the children of Israel, and sodomites were old testament sinners. Jude is comparing these 3 groups of sinners to the sins of the "certain men crept in unawares". However, it is very clear in verse 7 that it was the sodomites where "defiling the flesh". The angels despised dominion, and the Israelites spoke evil of God and Moses, and Aaron.
Jude
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers #1defile the flesh, #2despise dominion, and #3 speak evil of dignities.
The "certain men crept in unawares" are men at the time of Jude's writing. The angels, the children of Israel, and sodomites were old testament sinners. Jude is comparing these 3 groups of sinners to the sins of the "certain men crept in unawares". However, it is very clear in verse 7 that it was the sodomites where "defiling the flesh". The angels despised dominion, and the Israelites spoke evil of God and Moses, and Aaron.
I personally do not know enough of the Bible to answer this question however I can speculate from the things I have been taught. Which is quite simply we do not know God's thoughts. The Nephilim are barely mentioned in Genesis let alone anywhere else that I have discovered so far.
My personal thoughts on it is if God saw they were good and repentive perhaps, although from what I have learned they were not all that good. The Earth before the flood was filled with evil. I doubt many if any were actually saved in the days leading up to the flood.
My personal thoughts on it is if God saw they were good and repentive perhaps, although from what I have learned they were not all that good. The Earth before the flood was filled with evil. I doubt many if any were actually saved in the days leading up to the flood.
Thanks Dreamdweller for your question. There are some misconceptions in popular views on this subject. Giants refers to humans, not creatures that were part of what people incorrectly presume angels to be and part human. We read in Genesis 6:4 about the sons of God coming in to the daughters of men. The 'sons of God' is a term that simply means believers. Galatians tells us: "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. " Again, we read: "Ye are the sons of the living God. " But when Gen 6:4 says that the believers came in unto the daughters of men, it means that the believers in question (not Noah and his family) began to mingle spiritually with those who were not believers. Thus, the report of wickedness in that chapter. 'Giants' is a Bible term that is talking about these fallen or spiritually wrong humans. Remember how the term is used when David fights Goliath. Goliath taunts the true believer David who is annointed by God. The giant, then, is a person against and at odds with the true believer. It is possible that such a wicked person would be religious but not receive those whom Christ has sent.
If I might speak briefly on the popular notion that giants were the result of angels that bred with humans. The problem with this is that people have popular notions of angels that is a wrong notion. They see angels as being different from humans, spiritual beings only who don't have a flesh body, and supernatural and all powerful. They probably think of them with wings and so forth, though perhaps they have some breadth in this understanding. Still, the Bible seems to indicate otherwise in terms of them being different from humans. The biggest reason for thinking of angels in this way comes from Hebrews 1:7: "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. " People get the notion, and it is a very very very common popular notion, that this is not talking about humans. However, this verse is simply saying that God's messengers have the spirit. God's messengers, the believers, have the spirit. God's ministers, the believers, are a flame of fire. The gospel comes out of the mouth of human true believers and it comes from the spirit. The message speaks of Jesus on the cross (God's sacrifice made by fire) and it burns up, spiritually speaking, that which will not last. Remember how the two witnesses(a picture of true believers) in Revelation have fire come out of their mouths. This is not literal language but figurative language of how anyone who rejects the gospel coming from the mouth of true believers will perish. Did you know that Jesus is called an angel? Genesis 48:16: "The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads " The term angel simply means messenger. Jesus, for example is the chief messenger. Did you know that the Bible says that an angel is a man? "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. "
So, when you hear popular notions of giants in Genesis 6 being weird hybrids of humans and some spiritual supernatural being that people think of as an angel, this is incorrect. These weird beings do not exist. Angels are human beings that are messengers. God's angels, that is God's messengers, are the true believers who have the gospel, God's message.
If I might speak briefly on the popular notion that giants were the result of angels that bred with humans. The problem with this is that people have popular notions of angels that is a wrong notion. They see angels as being different from humans, spiritual beings only who don't have a flesh body, and supernatural and all powerful. They probably think of them with wings and so forth, though perhaps they have some breadth in this understanding. Still, the Bible seems to indicate otherwise in terms of them being different from humans. The biggest reason for thinking of angels in this way comes from Hebrews 1:7: "And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. " People get the notion, and it is a very very very common popular notion, that this is not talking about humans. However, this verse is simply saying that God's messengers have the spirit. God's messengers, the believers, have the spirit. God's ministers, the believers, are a flame of fire. The gospel comes out of the mouth of human true believers and it comes from the spirit. The message speaks of Jesus on the cross (God's sacrifice made by fire) and it burns up, spiritually speaking, that which will not last. Remember how the two witnesses(a picture of true believers) in Revelation have fire come out of their mouths. This is not literal language but figurative language of how anyone who rejects the gospel coming from the mouth of true believers will perish. Did you know that Jesus is called an angel? Genesis 48:16: "The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads " The term angel simply means messenger. Jesus, for example is the chief messenger. Did you know that the Bible says that an angel is a man? "And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. "
So, when you hear popular notions of giants in Genesis 6 being weird hybrids of humans and some spiritual supernatural being that people think of as an angel, this is incorrect. These weird beings do not exist. Angels are human beings that are messengers. God's angels, that is God's messengers, are the true believers who have the gospel, God's message.
#! Adam is called "the son of God" for the same reason any other human is: because he was a believer. He is listed with the other believers in Genesis 5.
#2. Abraham did not have to go to Heaven to be "before the Lord" and God, being everywhere, did not have to "leave" any place to meet him. Likewise, Job 1 and 2
#3 Sons of God are human believers. The Bible says that angels cannot be "sons of God". I believe Job 38:7 speaks of a future event.
Isaiah 51:15But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name. 16And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
#2. Abraham did not have to go to Heaven to be "before the Lord" and God, being everywhere, did not have to "leave" any place to meet him. Likewise, Job 1 and 2
#3 Sons of God are human believers. The Bible says that angels cannot be "sons of God". I believe Job 38:7 speaks of a future event.
Isaiah 51:15But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name. 16And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
What verse says that's the reasons Adam is called that?
If that's the case, why is Adam the only believer in the genealogy called "son of God"?
What verse says angels cannot be sons of God"?
That interpretation is inconsistent with the context of Job 38. The verbiage of verses 7 is past tense and the surrounding verses describe past events regarding creation. Job 38:7 is about old creation.
Isaiah 51 is speaking of Jewish failures and God's future restoration of the Jews (mentioned throughout the chapter). The New Heavens and New Earth is the context. Isaiah 51:15 is about the new creation that God will bring about.
If that's the case, why is Adam the only believer in the genealogy called "son of God"?
What verse says angels cannot be sons of God"?
That interpretation is inconsistent with the context of Job 38. The verbiage of verses 7 is past tense and the surrounding verses describe past events regarding creation. Job 38:7 is about old creation.
Isaiah 51 is speaking of Jewish failures and God's future restoration of the Jews (mentioned throughout the chapter). The New Heavens and New Earth is the context. Isaiah 51:15 is about the new creation that God will bring about.
God asked Job.....
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
An easy answer, would have been "I wasn't born yet" and that would not have required much "understanding". But I believe the question was far more important and profound than that. The scripture does not say that Job ever answered it. There are a few things we should know.
#1. Angels cannot be "sons of God" " at any time" (Hebrews 1:5)
#2. Human beings can become sons of God by faith.
#3. God "inhabits eternity" which means He is in the past, present, and future all at the same moment.
From that, we should be able to draw the conclusion that all of the "sons of God" are indeed already with Jesus, shouting and praising Him at this very moment from God's perspective because HE is already in the future. We don't know this because we are bound to chronological time and the physical world. This is why I think God's question was so profound. And I could be wrong about the whole thing. As the scripture says we "see through a glass darkly". We'll never know it all
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
An easy answer, would have been "I wasn't born yet" and that would not have required much "understanding". But I believe the question was far more important and profound than that. The scripture does not say that Job ever answered it. There are a few things we should know.
#1. Angels cannot be "sons of God" " at any time" (Hebrews 1:5)
#2. Human beings can become sons of God by faith.
#3. God "inhabits eternity" which means He is in the past, present, and future all at the same moment.
From that, we should be able to draw the conclusion that all of the "sons of God" are indeed already with Jesus, shouting and praising Him at this very moment from God's perspective because HE is already in the future. We don't know this because we are bound to chronological time and the physical world. This is why I think God's question was so profound. And I could be wrong about the whole thing. As the scripture says we "see through a glass darkly". We'll never know it all
Or, if they are referred to as sons of God it is like the cars of Henry Ford, the "father" of the automobile. Ford's children are the cars but they do not have the likeness and image of their father. Same with spirit angels, they cannot reproduce or multiply, they are only servants, therefore they do not bear the image of God.
God told Moses to write down that some "sons of God" married daughters of men and that scripture does not mention "angels". . I fully believe that scripture too, sir, because it is in the Word of God. How you accept or interpret it differently is your choice.
"Hebrew people" as a nation, rejected, complained, and "murmured" against Moses and God in the "wilderness", so much so that all of them, except the young, died in that wilderness all of which was also recorded by Moses himself. Then when Jesus came, the nation of Israel rejected Him and still reject Him to this very day. So, just because some Hebrews interpreted the Bible differently, and since it's "Hebrew people" who also deny that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ when I know good and well that it is, how does that qualify "Hebrew people" to correctly interpret scriptures simply because they are Hebrews? Jesus Himself told them they were getting it wrong in His day too. Having said that, I still respect, love, support and pray for the Nation of Israel also because the Bible tells me to. You are way out of line accusing me of calling God a liar, sir.
"Hebrew people" as a nation, rejected, complained, and "murmured" against Moses and God in the "wilderness", so much so that all of them, except the young, died in that wilderness all of which was also recorded by Moses himself. Then when Jesus came, the nation of Israel rejected Him and still reject Him to this very day. So, just because some Hebrews interpreted the Bible differently, and since it's "Hebrew people" who also deny that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus Christ when I know good and well that it is, how does that qualify "Hebrew people" to correctly interpret scriptures simply because they are Hebrews? Jesus Himself told them they were getting it wrong in His day too. Having said that, I still respect, love, support and pray for the Nation of Israel also because the Bible tells me to. You are way out of line accusing me of calling God a liar, sir.