Do we know how Yeshua lived his life?

What is missing isn't what you may think. You see when one STUDIES the whole of the Word, they begin to see how it all fits together. Sadly, over time what we find in Torah has been left behind. As my last post makes clear, we should try to understand not just the words of Yeshua, the setting, and His actions, all come together to show us more than just words. The adversity, and misunderstanding of the leaders that wish to kill Him, also show us a part of our own leaders. So it isn't so much that something is missing, so much as it is what we miss by not taking time to study every aspect of the Word.

As I have said this thread is about Yeshua and not Paul. Our reason for leaving Paul out of this conversation is simple. In EVERY thread I have ever opened, Paul is used to muddy the water so to speak. Some wish to give Paul more authority that Yeshua. To give an example that is not from the Word directly. If you are working for someone, they hold the finale say in all matters. No one working for said person holds more authority than their boss. Just as a follower of Yeshua, such as Paul, doesn't hold more authority than Yeshua. As you may have seen in this thread, some have tried to use Paul to remove the teachings of Yeshua. So I am trying to keep Paul out of this, so that anyone reading can see the teachings of Yeshua, without having to wade through the mud to find it.
Before you make a claim that isn't true, keep in mind we are only in the 8th chapter of John. When we get to the passages you noted, they will be covered. I know that some will try and say I am doing nothing more than forcing a conversation into my own understanding. However that isn't true at all. Those same people are the ones that if I would give them free rain here, would turn this into a, BUT PAUL SAID debate. In which the teachings of Yeshua would be lost to Paul said. Take the idea that they will try to use Paul to remove the Tanakh. They hold almost no understanding of the Tanakh, and it seems as though the use of this is sinful in their minds.
You are 100% right Yeshua does show us His truth when we are open to it. However, we must keep in mind that He will not force us to follow His truth.
last thing on this, then I will give you time to reply.
If we don't know how the feast work, what they are, and why they are there for us to study and live out in our lives, how will we even have a full understanding of Yeshua's life, teachings, and faith? If we are to walk after His example, should we not understand what it is we are to do?

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I see you are partly through John, yes. There's a lot more. I can appreciate the concern of how Yeshua, Jesus and Pauline teachings have (in english and taken out of context) seem to present a conflict, but in deeper study of context and written language of the time (which requires knowing a thing or two of old and new greek (septugiant impact), the aramaic topic and the hebrew) as well as interpretive issues, you will actually find that Paul never conflicts Yeshua, Jesus at all. Of course, why would he, he was called by HIM, and worked humbly for HIM. Not against HIM. That's all for now, but there's more to respond to and more to ponder here. Thank you again

We only know what’s in the Bible right? I know there were manuscripts and all that but that’s a lot of work. Jesus was obedient to his mom and dad, especially after they were stressed and couldn’t find Him that one day. The rest would only be assumptions right? Did He have thoughts of racing camels and seeing how far he could hit a rock with a stick? Who knows?

You are right in that Paul never contradicts Yeshua, how ever as you will find on here, some do try to use his writings in just that fashion. I look forward to seeing you again, enjoy your self and watch out there be wolves in the forest.
May HaShem guide your studies, as he has ours. Oh so you know, the we, that you will find me speaking of is a groop of theachers like myself, that work to restore the truth of the Word, we don't follow any western, or Jewish theology. It has taken us some years to get where we are, and there has been some rather heated debate to get here.

We have no reason to assume anything. We are not here to look at if Yeshua played baseball or not. His life as we should know was His faith. His teachings were a big part of that, He opened doors of understanding not found anywhere else in the Word. It when one starts to assume that they get lost, so lets stay with facts, and see where that leads us.
As for the work, well one only gets out of any thing what they are willing to put into it. Yeshua never said,, don't worry about what the Word teaches, you don't need it. So please put in the work, and show yourself approved.

During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey Him and was designated by God as high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him: Whoever claims to abide in Him must walk as Jesus walked.

Some may think I stopped when , and where in order to change context unnoticed. However that is rather hard to do when your words are placed for the world to see. Oddly yes, I did stop before I should have, sorry. After all the next passage should be placed in context with the verse that proceeded it.

Jhn 8:16And if I did, my judgment would be correct in every respect because I am not alone. The Father [fn] who sent me is with me.
Jhn 8:17Your own law says that if two people agree about something, their witness is accepted as fact

Now we think it best to make 2 teachings on this clear.
1 Some say that with the words YOUR LAW, Yeshua was trying to separate Himself from Torah.
2 Some say that the use of YOUR LAW was making it clear that Yeshua didn't up hold Rabbinic Law. We will not voice to one over the other here, so please don't think that the placement of them holds any kind of hidden meaning or agenda. After all was it not the same law that both followed? On the surface maybe. So we will let Yeshua show us His stand on things as we move on. It would be a bit deceitful. At lest to some anyway.

Jhn 8:18I am one witness, and my Father who sent me is the other."
Jhn 8:19"Where is your father?" they asked.
Jesus answered, "Since you don't know who I am, you don't know who my Father is. If you knew me, you would also know my Father."
Here we find that Yeshua is making it clear who He is. Now I had a real hard time with this many years back. Then one of the others challanged me try something. I place that challange to all of you know. When you read the name Yeshua, (Jesus) try useing HaShem in the same passage. If it doesn't change the intent or meaning, then what you are looking at is HaShem, if not then you are looking at the man not the spirit that fills the man. I know it sounds odd, yet it works.

Jhn 8:20Jesus made these statements while he was teaching in the section of the Temple known as the Treasury. But he was not arrested, because his time had not yet come.
More than once we have seen that it was not His time. So what is meant by this? Some will say He had not started his ministry. Others say it has to do with the timing for His sacrifice. No matter what we may think, it holds little if any meaning in the minds of some, so we will let this answer it's self as we move on.

Jhn 8:21Later Jesus said to them again, "I am going away. You will search for me but will die in your sin. You cannot come where I am going."
Jhn 8:22The people asked, "Is he planning to commit suicide? What does he mean, 'You cannot come where I am going'?"
Jhn 8:23Jesus continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You belong to this world; I do not.

Hoe many times in your life have you said, You are not at home in this world? Oddly we understand that we are nothing than sojourners in this world. You see once we truly give our lives to HaShem, this world losses it's grip on us. We no long strive for riches in this life, rather we store up riches in Heaven. Mat. 6: 19-20.

Jhn 8:24That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins."

Jhn 8:25"Who are you?" they demanded.
Jesus replied, "The one I have always claimed to be.


There is some debate over this passage. Some will say that Yeshua never made the claim that He was haShem, others say He had. What must be noted here is that I AM is the one name in all of scripture given as HaShems name. Oh sure we see othe names placed in scripture as being His. However only once does he give the name Yahovah, I AM) as his name. I would be happy to bring that up and make it clear, however as stated the same limits I place on others must also be imposed on us. So no matter how much we wish to post that passage, we will uphold those limits. Besides, We are sure you all know it, if you know anything about the stories found in the Torah.

It was pointed out that I made statement and didn't follow through with the thought. If so, you have my apology. However when looking back I didn't find this to be the case. You see when I said Yeshua must fulfill all 7 feast, (or however I worded it), I didn't go into details on every feast. As we know the fulfillment of a feast is only accomplished when Yeshua fulfills the intent of the feast. When we stand in judgement, Yeshua will fulfill Yom Kipper, when he passes said judgement.
As I said when this was pointed out, I am more than happy to do another thread on the feast, there meaning, what they show us about Yeshua, and so on. Even though it has been clear by many people, they have no desire to lean anything that is not 100% in line with their ideology.
So if anyone wishes a study on the feast, let it be known, and I am more than willing to open a thread for that.

Jhn 8:26I have much to say about you and much to condemn, but I won't. For I say only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he is completely truthful."
Jhn 8:27But they still didn't understand that he was talking about his Father.

I always love this passage, as it brings to mind something that happens a lot in my life. You see much like the people Yeshua was speaking with, not many understand what I mean when I say I am ready to go home. They think I am going to my house. However that isn't home, it is just a place to rest my head as I sojourn in this world that isn't mine. Home is where my Father is, where my rewords, where no crime takes place ever, and joy is the order of the day, every day.

Jhn 8:28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will understand that I AM he. I do nothing on my own but say only what the Father taught me.
Jhn 8:29And the one who sent me is with me—he has not deserted me. For I always do what pleases him."
Jhn 8:30Then many who heard him say these things believed in him.

Can it be that a simple statement like this changed the hearts and minds of people, that just seconds ago were against Yeshua? I would think not. Although if we look a little deeper what do we find? The ones that believe Him, seen paast the words, and found truth. You see much like today, many of Yeshua's teachings were misunderstood. So it is our thinking that when Yeshua said ,"You will understand that I AM He." they seen past the words and understood that Yeshua was indeed Who He said He was. HaShem in human form. Every thing He did, gave witness to Him, and Who He is. More on this will be seen as time goes on.
Jhn 8:31Jesus said to the people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings.
I know that some will think I am beating a dead horse here, however, as is made clear here, if Paul, John, Peter, or any of His followers turned away from the Teachings of Yeshua, then they were not His followers. Logical thinking mandates that any thought, teaching, or study must be in harmony with the whole of said topic. So when a person makes the attempt to use scripture to nullify scripture, they are not following logic at all.
Jhn 8:32And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Jhn 8:33"But we are descendants of Abraham," they said. "We have never been slaves to anyone. What do you mean, 'You will be set free'?"
Jhn 8:34Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin.
Although it is true that Israel was enslaved by more than one nation, and at this time were under servitude to Rome, they didn't understand that they were in fact slaves. Not just to Rome, rather also to their own fleshly desire. Something that everyone struggles with, even today. I know there some that don't wish to see them selves as sinners, yet it is true. Not one person on this earth can say they don't, haven't or ever will sin. Sorry if that hits home in a way that makes you uncomfortable, yet the truth has a way of doing that. Yes it does say we will be set free from that, however if we don't wake up and seek the truth, we are still in our sin.
Jhn 8:35A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever.
Jhn 8:36So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free.
Though many will think this is saying they are free, they might be right. If they walk a sin free life.
Jhn 8:37Yes, I realize that you are descendants of Abraham. And yet some of you are trying to kill me because there's no room in your hearts for my message.
Jhn 8:38I am telling you what I saw when I was with my Father. But you are following the advice of your father."
Jhn 8:39"Our father is Abraham!" they declared. "No," Jesus replied, "for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example.
Some may wish to say this is for the Jews, and that as a gentile we don't need the Laws, much less an understanding of Abraham, and how he lived his life. If that is your understanding, I pray you seek a fuller understanding. After all, is it not true that once we give our lives over to HaShem, we become grafted into the family of Abraham? As we will see Yeshua does teach this, as we will see once we get there.
Jhn 8:40Instead, you are trying to kill me because I told you the truth, which I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.
So what is it that shows they are not following the example of Abraham? The idea that they wish to kill Yeshua? The fact that their pride gets the better of them? Or it might be that they have rejected truth, in order to stay with their own ideas of faith? We would love to see what you think on this.
Jhn 8:41No, you are imitating your real father."
They replied, "We aren't illegitimate children! God himself is our true Father."
So much for believeing in Yeshua. Yes it has been said that here is a contradiction. They believe, then they make it clear they don't. However for any thinking this, keep in mind there were more than just believers in this setting. Though we are not told who is saying this, it is clear they didn't understand what was being said.
More when we return.

A verse that comes to mind "So from now on we regard no one from a human point of view [according to worldly standards and values]. Though we have known Christ from a human point of view, now we no longer know Him in this way. "

Do you know what that verse means?

I can always cunt on people NOT adhering to any request. However as I said, Paul has nothing to do this this thread.

Jhn 8:42Jesus told them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me.
Jhn 8:43Why can't you understand what I am saying? It's because you can't even hear me!
Jhn 8:44For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies.

It was asked of us many times why we speak the way we do. The answer is always the same, and comes back to this and other passages like it. You see when you speak clearly, and don't sugar coat anything, the point you make or not is clear for all to see. Besides if we are to walk as Yeshua, then by His example we should become bold, and unapologetic in our teachings.

Jhn 8:45So when I tell the truth, you just naturally don't believe me!
Jhn 8:46Which of you can truthfully accuse me of sin? And since I am telling you the truth, why don't you believe me?

If as we know is true, Yeshua was telling us the truth, why do we wish to try and show His teachings wrong by turning one passage against another to show that Yeshua was wrong? Why is it that so many understand so litle of His teachings, and furthering of our understanding of the Word?

Jhn 8:47Anyone who belongs to God listens gladly to the words of God. But you don't listen because you don't belong to God."
Jhn 8:48The people retorted, "You Samaritan devil! Didn't we say all along that you were possessed by a demon?"

Sadly, many on here have said kind of the same thing about us. Oh don't me wrong, we take it as confirmation that we are on the right road. You know that straight and narrow path that leads to Heaven. The one with only a few people on it.

Jhn 8:49"No," Jesus said, "I have no demon in me. For I honor my Father—and you dishonor me.

One thing we all must ask from time to time comes from this passage. The question is, "Do we honor HaShem with our dismissal of His teachings?" sadly most don't even know they do so.

Jhn 8:51I tell you the truth, anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!"

When we understand that Yeshua is the only one that can grant salvation, and His Word is law, then we can understand the Word in a new way. Yeshua said it, not us. We are to follow His teachings, just as every writer in the Word follows, and does their best to help us understand them.

Jhn 8:52The people said, "Now we know you are possessed by a demon. Even Abraham and the prophets died, but you say, 'Anyone who obeys my teaching will never die!'
Jhn 8:53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?
Jhn 8:54Jesus answered, "If I want glory for myself, it doesn't count. But it is my Father who will glorify me. You say, 'He is our God,
Jhn 8:55but you don't even know him. I know him. If I said otherwise, I would be as great a liar as you! But I do know him and obey him.

If asked to give a short esae on Who HaShem is, how many would even know where to start? Would you be Biblically correct?
I need to stop here, as something came up I can't postpone.

Jhn 8:56Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad."
Jhn 8:57The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?"
Jhn 8:58Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!
Jhn 8:59At that point they picked up stones to throw at him. But Jesus was hidden from them and left the Temple.

Am I the only one that finds this funny? What am I talking about you may ask. In the last 2000 years or so, man kind has followed this same means of trying to deal with anyone that doesn't agree with them. It gets even worse when that person uses scripture to back their understand, and show the vary bass of faults teachings has found it's way into most church doctrines.
Here we find they have said all manner of things in just this one chapter. They used Torah to try and discredit Him, they tried to make the claim that Yeshua didn't even know His own father. Then they made the claim to be children of Abraham, only to change that to them being true children of HaShem. When all that failed they change to decry Him as a devil. Sadly many of the same things are seen today.
When everything they tried failed to bring about the end they wanted, they picked up stones, to stone Him. Can you see the look on their faces when they stood back up and Yeshua was gone? There are many teachings on what brought this about. Some say He was lifted up by angles, others say the people were blinded in a way that removed their sight only where Yeshua was concerned. Though we are not told what exactly came about, we do know Yeshua was hidden from their sight. We also know that they were willing to kill Him to shut Him up.
We as ambassadors of Yeshua should never conduct our selves in this manner. Yet as can be seen in everythread ever opened by us, many conduct themselves in the same manner as the people in this chapter and others have. In some cases they leave the feeling that had they the chance to kill us, they most likely would.
When we find we must turn to makeing any form of statement about another that we know nothing about, we have enterned into a world devoid of HaShem, and Yeshua may well decide He doesn't know you at all. It does show that we hold little to know understanding of Who He is, or how He would conduct Himself when faced with the same thing.

Moving on to chapter 9, one must wonder if there is any backing for the idea that sin is not the reason for all illness. Did you know that Job stands in conlict with the idea the sin is the reason for all illness? The whole book of Job does, so why? After all I am sure we have seen at lest one so called faith healer make that claim.

Jhn 9:1As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth.
Jhn 9:2"Rabbi," his disciples asked him, "why was this man born blind? Was it because of his own sins or his parents' sins?"
Jhn 9:3"It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins," Jesus answered. "This happened so the power of God could be seen in him.
Jhn 9:4We must quickly carry out the tasks assigned us by the one who sent us. The night is coming, and then no one can work.
Jhn 9:5But while I am here in the world, I am the light of the world."

If one reads the first 2 chapters of Job, they may find that like the first 5 verses of John 9 fit well, in that they both give us a chance to learn about sin. As well as look at our own lives to seek out what is there that brings glory to HaShem, and what doesn't. When I first broke my back, I thought it was the end of the world in some ways. Some 17 yeaars later when it become hard for me do much of anything, I thought long and hard about all the whys, what if's, and so on. Then it came to me. I once prayed for a time when I could spend my days and nights in study of the Word. Well I understand now why. It was in answer to that prayer.

Jhn 9:6Then he spit on the ground, made mud with the saliva, and spread the mud over the blind man's eyes. Jhn 9:7He told him, "Go wash yourself in the pool of Siloam" (Siloam means "sent"). So the man went and washed and came back seeing!
Jhn 9:8His neighbors and others who knew him as a blind beggar asked each other, "Isn't this the man who used to sit and beg?"
Jhn 9:9Some said he was, and others said, "No, he just looks like him!"
But the beggar kept saying, "Yes, I am the same one!"
Jhn 9:10They asked, "Who healed you? What happened?"

Even today, if we know a person that suffered from a birth defect, then one day they were made whole, we might question how. Some may even think the answer is a bit out there.

Jhn 9:13Then they took the man who had been blind to the Pharisees,
Jhn 9:14because it was on the Sabbath that Jesus had made the mud and healed him.

This is where we started to see something odd in the way people back then thought. You see here we are not seeing Biblical law, rather a peek at Rabbinic Law. Something we have decided to make note of, yet not dive into just yet. You see for many, the idea of 2 sets of laws would only push them over the top. There will be many chances to lok at this in the other 3 books on Yeshua's life.

We will stop here just incase someone is reading, and needs any thing cleared up. Enjoy, and may HaShem bring you to His truth.

I find it odd that not one question came from the last post. In a way it seems as though no one is reading it. Although I find that to be strange in it's own way. After all, if you don't the voice of Yeshua, how will you know if you are hearing Him, or the second beast of Rev. 13?

Jhn 9:15The Pharisees asked the man all about it. So he told them, "He put the mud over my eyes, and when I washed it away, I could see!"
Jhn 9:16Some of the Pharisees said, "This man Jesus is not from God, for he is working on the Sabbath." Others said, "But how could an ordinary sinner do such miraculous signs?" So there was a deep division of opinion among them.

We have debated this for a long time. You see when we look at this we, as a group, find ourselves also looking the second beast. Although that may be a topic for a different thread, as this one is for the Life of Yeshua. Yet there seems to be a need to place this out there.
As we should all know, the beast will set himself up in the temple and say he is god. In the eyes of many he ill be seen as just that. Before anyone thinks I am going against my own request to keep this on track, and leave out all other passages, you would be wrong. I asked that Paul be left out, and only Paul.
Now in response to the question asked here. How can an ordinary sin do such miraculous signs? In all truth, none of us can say we understand this 100%, yet we are given clues. We all know that the beast will do a lot of things, call down fire from heaven, Rev. 13:13.
There is a thought that the beast will do many of the things Yeshua has done. Though we never told he will heal anyone. For many the idea that they wouold be fouled into think the beast is Yeshua is unthinkable. Yet at the same time, they can't even answr to the teachings of Yeshua. Why would I say that you may ask. the truth is we can't say for suree, as the Word doesn't give us a detailed list of what the best will do. What we do understand, is that the beast will be so much like Yeshua, that many, even some that say they know everything about Yeshua will be tricked. Not because they don't know what the beast will do, rather because they don't know Yeshua, His teachings, His faith, or why knowing His faith holds anything for us.
More on that as we move forward.

Jhn 9:17Then the Pharisees again questioned the man who had been blind and demanded, "What's your opinion about this man who healed you?"
The man replied, "I think he must be a prophet."
Jhn 9:18The Jewish leaders still refused to believe the man had been blind and could now see, so they called in his parents.
Jhn 9:19They asked them, "Is this your son? Was he born blind? If so, how can he now see?"
Jhn 9:20His parents replied, "We know this is our son and that he was born blind,
Jhn 9:21but we don't know how he can see or who healed him. Ask him. He is old enough to speak for himself." Jhn 9:22His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders, who had announced that anyone saying Jesus was the Messiah would be expelled from the synagogue.
Jhn 9:23That's why they said, "He is old enough. Ask him."

Sadly many that say behind closed doors that Yeshua is who He said, are not going to say it in the open. More out of fear of rejection than anything. Just as the parents did here. Now as some of us know, the Torah is clear on the fact that if one is found worshiping other gods they are cut off. The use of this law is seldom documented in scripture, though it is there to show us what comes from said action. Although we are never told if this man was expelled, it is thought that he had been. Bringing us face to face with a topic we don't like to place out there, yet at times we must. Under Biblical law, there is no guilt to be placed on anyone in this story. However under Rabbinic law, there is. To try and bring this into focus, we will use a real life example.
A man in our group was removed from his church, and will never teach in any church again. His crime? Teaching the truth of the Word really has to say. On what topic? This topic right here. Understanding just what Yeshua's life, teachings, and faith truly are. As a man that knows law, (he teaches law to law students, and has for close to 20 years I think.) he did an indepth study in his church on this topic. In it never once did he say, YOU MUST KEEP THE LAW. What he did do, was show what the Word had to say on the topic. So when you think, I am using legal tactics, you can thank him for my understanding of them.
Any way, most churches have a contract that must be signed by anyone that is behind the pulpit. This contract is clear that if you teach certain TRUTHS that are not in line with church doctrine, you will be excommunicated. Once you sign this, you give up your right to teach Biblical doctrine, in favor of denominational doctrine.
Again we stop here to see if anyone is reading, and has an questions.

Here in America we call Him Jesus.

I find this fascinating. There is a passage from the Mishnah that lists the following stages of a man's live:

At five years of age, reading the Bible
At ten years, learning the Mishnah
At thirteen years, bound to the commandments
At fifteen, study of the Talmud
At eighteen ears, marriage
At twenty, pursuit of trade
At thirty years, full vigor

We know Yeshua was a devout Jew his entire life; we also know he pursued the trade of carpenter and then engaged his personal mission at age thirty in the fullness of his vigor. In my limited knowledge this pattern appears to be biblical with but one exception, an exception that is fully understandable. Our Lord refused to establish an earthly dynasty.

Not every one. Although it does bring to mind an old debate on this topic. You see Yeshua as His name means HaShem is salvation, is in fact Jewish. So think of this way, in the USA your name is, Lets say Grumpy, Now you take a trip to lets say Germany, and they say Grumpy as lets say, Gudinhimer. SO some one calls out Gudinhimer, calling to you. Would you be inclined to answer them? Just saying is all. Names hold real meaning in the Hebrew language, once you take it on your self to change that, you lose also the meaning.
Now being as you know that Yeshua is who He is, why bring up an argument that holds on relevance at all? Rather distracts from the topic.

Thank you for the input. Although we kind of know some of that, it is good to see the whole thing posted. After all as we know the lack of understanding leads to destruction, so the better we can understand the life of Yeshua the better ones chances of knowing Him when He returns.