One hundred fifty three fish

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Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
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Pennsylvania
#1
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,279
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#2
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,193
433
83
Pennsylvania
#3
As far as the fish as I looked at it over the years might pertain to the generations over a period of 6000 years.

From Adam to Joseph----76 generations over 4000 years
Christ--------------------------1
Another 76 generations--76 generations over 2000 years averaging 26+ years per generation

------------------------Total 153 generations
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#4
Why did they count the fish?
It is very possible that this number would comprise the ideal number of believers in a church. It is not too small and not too large.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,394
6,734
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#5
or, it could just be they counted the fish, that happened, and John included it when he wrote his Gospel.....
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,279
2,557
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#6
As far as the fish as I looked at it over the years might pertain to the generations over a period of 6000 years.

From Adam to Joseph----76 generations over 4000 years
Christ--------------------------1
Another 76 generations--76 generations over 2000 years averaging 26+ years per generation

------------------------Total 153 generations
And is completely outside of any of the themes found in John's Gospel account.

John's gospel is focused on fathers and especially sons. There are other themes...mostly dealing with common theological systems and ideologies that are in error.
So...maybe what you are saying is true....but it's still not what John had in mind when he wrote the number. It's way outside the themes he has clearly showcased.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,652
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#7
or, it could just be they counted the fish, that happened, and John included it when he wrote his Gospel.....
They were fishermen it seems logical it would be common to count thier catch

i find it remarkably similar to Luke five when Jesus called them to become fishers of men and had done the same telling them after bo fish were caught to cast thier net and both times he told them to do it and they did them the blessing happened
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
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#8
John 21:9 When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread. 10 Jesus said to them, “Bring some of the fish that you have just caught.” 11 So Simon Peter went aboard and hauled the net ashore, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three of them; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12 Jesus said to them, “Come and have breakfast.” Now none of the disciples dared ask him, “Who are you?” They knew it was the Lord. 13 Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and so with the fish. 14 This was now the third time that Jesus was revealed to the disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Why did they count the fish?
Interestingly enough, last time I checked, Israel was the 153rd largest country in the world by area.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,375
1,081
113
#9
If you're about to eat breakfast, you're gonna estimate what the group is going to eat and count that out; and at some point you gotta figure out what you're going to do with the rest of the fish- whether you're going to give some out, or sell them off, or whatever. Having a number would probably help with that.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
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62
#10
Doesn't Israel have a hundred fifty three lefthanded cellists who are allergic to fish on Thursdays?
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,279
2,557
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#11
Doesn't Israel have a hundred fifty three lefthanded cellists who are allergic to fish on Thursdays?
Or maybe because exactly (if you double the 153) it becomes 306 years later that Constantine would rule over Israel as part of the Roman Empire.....

Or maybe....there were exactly 153 reeds used to stabilize their boat that they were fishing in....or there were 153 squares in the net they were casting....on the other side of the boat....

We can have all sorts of fun with the ridiculous things people come up with....
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,279
2,557
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#12
153 coke bottles so that everyone can have a coke and a smile?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,256
1,110
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#13
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
I've often wondered what the number was intended to reveal. Thank you so much for sharing this information.

As I read your post a thought immediately sprang to mind. The disciples' catch of 153 brought forth out of the water speaks to the reality of Children of God coming forth from the spiritual womb of water baptism. This is consistent with Jesus' statement, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." (Matt. 4:29, Mark 1:17) There is no denying fishers bring their catch from the water. Those who accept the great commission have already placed their trust in Jesus by obeying His word, and go on to share the truth with others. (Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:15-20, Luke 24:47-49, John 20:15-17)
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
#14
Ok...
Context is EVERYTHING.

In the Hebrew language and culture letters are numbers and numbers are also letters.

Word/number games/riddles were common in the Jewish version of grammar school. (Betgashepher...beht gas hep her)

This number was absolutely known by every 9 year old Jewish boy and girl that darkened the door posts of any school.
It's the number for the sum of "bene elihim" or better known in English as "children of God".

Same Children of God as mentioned in John 1:12.

Notice how not a one of them was lost?

Just saying.
Could you please elaborate further. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria 153 would be QNG. Maybe there are other letter combinations that produce 153. Which Hebrew word means children of God?
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,279
2,557
113
#16
Could you please elaborate further. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria 153 would be QNG. Maybe there are other letter combinations that produce 153. Which Hebrew word means children of God?
It's two words...
Bene Elohim
Transliteration being what it is. I'll refer you to Bullinger's "Number in Scriptures" as the reference.

It's somewhat technical....kinda too technical for a rather colloquial conversation as takes place in a forum like this.

But I will say this: Where Bullinger gets kinda "out there" with some of his numbers and enumeration he isn't completely out in left field with all of his assertions. This one he is spot on with.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,505
468
83
#18
It's two words...
Bene Elohim
Transliteration being what it is. I'll refer you to Bullinger's "Number in Scriptures" as the reference.

It's somewhat technical....kinda too technical for a rather colloquial conversation as takes place in a forum like this.

But I will say this: Where Bullinger gets kinda "out there" with some of his numbers and enumeration he isn't completely out in left field with all of his assertions. This one he is spot on with.
It seems to work. I like that.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#19
The number 153 is the numerical total for the Hebrew phrase Ani Elohim, which means "I am God"

Jesus was telling them He is God.