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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#401
Oct 29, 2023
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#401
Foghorn said:
let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important.
Click to expand...
You are imposing calvinism on the Bible. You are denying what the text says to make it teach what your calvinism needs it to say.
Where does the Bible say God draws only the elect? It clearly says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw Him." Judas was with Jesus for three years. How can you say Ju=das Iscariot did not come to Jesus? Do you think he was distance-learning apart from the other discipJes and Jesus?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#402
May 23, 2012
13,016
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#402
Foghorn said:
Well I’m going off your post where you said my point about Lydia was a good point. Did you change the subject?
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I said your point was good yes however,

Paul said the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the POWER OF GOD for salvation, and it is God who chose the foolishness of Preaching


1cor 1:21

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.


25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.


The truth is that the Gospel message of Christ will save those who believe. Someone has to preach that gospel, as Paul said, Or no one will hear.

If God knows who he will save, why bother with Preaching? It will get done with or without preaching right?

Yet God said this is How HE wants it done.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#403
May 23, 2012
13,016
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#403
Foghorn said:
Agrippa was a Jew; and, as such, he of course believed the prophets.

Perhaps Paul anticipated his answer because he was a Jew?
Click to expand...
Paul preached Christ and gave his testimony, but Agrippa rejected it.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#404
May 6, 2024
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#404
PaulThomson said:
You are imposing calvinism on the Bible. You are denying what the text says to make it teach what your calvinism needs it to say.
Where does the Bible say God draws only the elect? It clearly says, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw Him." Judas was with Jesus for three years. How can you say Ju=das Iscariot did not come to Jesus? Do you think he was distance-learning apart from the other discipJes and Jesus?
Click to expand...
actually your interjecting humanism into the text.
God does draw only the elect. Deny it is you like. I should have more time later, on my pc and not on my phone. I’ll show you that the Bible teaches God draws only His elect.
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#407
Oct 29, 2023
3,473
454
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#407
Foghorn said:
He didn’t interject faith? Is that what your worried about?
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I know he didn't interject (sic.) faith. No that is not what i'm worried about. I'm critical of the unique spin calvinists give to language used in the Bible in order tpo force it to say something we don't mean with the same language outside of the Bible.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#408
May 6, 2024
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#408
PaulThomson said:
I know he didn't interject (sic.) faith. No that is not what i'm worried about. I'm critical of the unique spin calvinists give to language used in the Bible in order tpo force it to say something we don't mean with the same language outside of the Bible.
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Well then go argue with a Calvinist then. 😎
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#410
May 23, 2012
13,016
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#410
Foghorn said:
This drawing, do you believe it is prevenient grace?
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when you say prevenient grace are speaking of those who the grace of God in a person's life that precedes conversion?

The love of God is shown freely, and Grace is there to receive by all as The word of God says in John 3:16
Eph 2:5, 8

What the word of God says after the death Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ it is the Preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the POWER of GOD

Mark 1:1
Rom 1:6

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:16

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#413
May 6, 2024
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#413
CS1 said:
when you say prevenient grace are speaking of those who the grace of God in a person's life that precedes conversion?

The love of God is shown freely, and Grace is there to receive by all as The word of God says in John 3:16
Eph 2:5, 8

What the word of God says after the death Burial and Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ it is the Preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the POWER of GOD

Mark 1:1
Rom 1:6

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:16

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Click to expand...
Yes, that’s what I am talking about.
by the way, none of those verses prove prevenient grace if that’s what you were attempting
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#415
May 23, 2012
13,016
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#415
Foghorn said:
Yes, that’s what I am talking about.
by the way, none of those verses prove prevenient grace if that’s what you were attempting
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No, I am not attempting to say anything like that. Please don't assume I am.

What the word of God says

Christ died for the world and those who hear the preaching of the Gospel that is the POWER OF GOD can be saved. One can reject that call as the word says
Heb 2:3


How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#416
Oct 29, 2023
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#416
Foghorn said:
I’m reading scripture for what it says. It it sounds Calvinistic , Arminian, etc.. sorry
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The following is not reading scrioture for what it SAYS.

Foghorn said:
"let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important."

What you are reding into the text is exactly what calvinism reads into it, but the text does not actually SAY.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#417
May 6, 2024
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christcentered.community.forum
#417
CS1 said:
No, I am not attempting to say anything like that. Please don't assume I am.

What the word of God says

Christ died for the world and those who hear the preaching of the Gospel that is the POWER OF GOD can be saved. One can reject that call as the word says
Heb 2:3


How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Click to expand...
Let the verse speak for itself. Imo that’s a very misleading interpretation
 
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PaulThomson

Well-known member
#418
Oct 29, 2023
3,473
454
83
#418
Foghorn said:
actually your interjecting humanism into the text.
God does draw only the elect. Deny it is you like. I should have more time later, on my pc and not on my phone. I’ll show you that the Bible teaches God draws only His elect.
Click to expand...
I look forward to reading that.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#419
May 23, 2012
13,016
4,316
113
#419
Foghorn said:
Common grace can be resisted. Scripture, as far as I can see does not teach prevenient grace.
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I am not suggesting that " prevenient grace."

These titles associated with Grace come from those who are for or against Calvinism or for or against Armianainism.

I hold to neither but the word of God. Elect, non-elect is an argument by those who already claim to be saved LOL.
Yet I have not found many who can preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and see the word of God confirmed with salvation, healing, and miracles. The frozen chosen are as dead as those they claim aren't saved.
 
Foghorn

Foghorn

Active member
#420
May 6, 2024
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christcentered.community.forum
#420
PaulThomson said:
The following is not reading scrioture for what it SAYS.

Foghorn said:
"let’s consider it for a moment.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
God only draws His elect. Judas wasn’t drawn because he was not an elect.
Also keep in mind, a verse consists of all the words in it, not just a select few. And context is extremely important."

What you are reding into the text is exactly what calvinism reads into it, but the text does not actually SAY.
Click to expand...
Oh I assure you it is. i wonder, do you deny the biblical words, elect, predestination, God’s choosing, etc? 🤔
 
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