ROMANS 10:9

This verse is teaching that there is a deliverance, here on earth for God's elect children, when they believe in their, changed, heart (Ezk 36:26) that God hath raised Jesus from the dead.


Saved, according to Strong's concordance translation, means "delivered". There is a deliverance, here on earth, from their ignorance, when a child of God comes unto a knowledge of the truth,

Rom 10:1-3 - Paul's prayer to God, for (spiritual) Israel, which is Jacob who is surname Israel (Gen 32:28) (Isaiah 45:4)(Psalms 78:71) is that they might be saved (delivered). For I bear them record that they have a "zeal of God" (indicating that they believe in God), but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, (by the old law of works) have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

"the kingdom of heaven" is one of many names of the the visible church that Jesus established. Others are; the church of Christ, the church of God, the kingdom of God, the church in the wilderness, the little flock, Zion, the new Jerusalem, and more.

According to the visible church discipline a person can be excluded from being a member of the church, but whose spirit can be saved in heaven (1 Cor 5:1-5)

Otherwise, Matt 7:21 would teach eternal deliverance by works, which is a false doctrine.

Confessing and believing, in spiritual things is not the works of the natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14, who cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God, thinking them to be foolishness.

Confessing and believing are limited to those who have already been born again.

As you have mentioned works done in the power of the Holy Spirit aren't considered works of the flesh. So if a person believes in God, they receive the Holy Spirit who Himself will cause a Christian to grow in godliness and obedience. That's how confession and belief relate to obedience to God the Father.



There is some free will choice before a person gets saved though. Anyone who was willing to hear the Father and willing to learn from Him is lead to Jesus for salvation.

John 6:45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me


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The Philippians letter was written to all the saints in Christ Jesus. The "every knee, and every tongue" in verse 10 & 11 has reference to all the saints in Christ Jesus.

Concerning Titus, Paul left Titus in the church at Crete to ordain elders in the church that they may, by sound doctrine, both to exort and to convince the gainsayers, in the church, and to rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.

If the children of God does not understand how their righteousness, by nature, is but as filthy rags, they will never understand the grace of God.

Are you correcting me or elaborating upon what I posted?

You are ignoring 1 Cor 2:14, The natural man, as well as those who have been born again, have the freedom to choose how they want to live their lives as they sojourn here on earth.

The difference in the two, is that the natural man will not, and indeed can not, choose the things of a spiritual nature, thinking them to be foolishness, Once a person is born again spiritually, then they can make choices pertaining to spiritual matters.

God's children are referred to as his sheep (Matt 25:32). (John 10:27-29) and are the only ones that are willing to hear the Father and willing to learn from Him.

Correcting you. You have miss-interpreting the scriptures to make them teach eternal deliverance by good works.

show me "Behold I give unto you freewill"

more like

"I put before you life or death ... choose ye this day who you will SERVE"

Choice is not freewill, if man had freewill he could say to God " I refuse to serve You but I will not die" This actually is what sinful man does want. He wants to eat of the tree of life but there is an archangel with a flaming sword placed there to stop him.

As long as ever God says "thou shalt not ..." there is no freewill.

Why don't we start with Philippians and you can show me how I'm misinterpreting it.

Then we can move on to Titus.

I'd appreciate some detail remaining in Philippians to begin, while keeping it as brief as you can to make your points.

Thanks!

Therefore: By believing Jesus raised from the dead (Romans 10:9) is just like by doing the will of God.
JOHN 6:38-40
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him , may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Who are the True Believers in Christ, if we ask the people they have different recognition in Christ.
1. Some says Jesus is only a Man.
NUMBERS 23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

2. Other says Jesus is not a Man but a God and he is Mighty God, and his father is the Almighty.
ISAIAH 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
2 CORINTHIANS 6:18
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

3. There are also some who says the name of the father and holy ghost is Jesus Christ and the name of God is Jesus Christ
MATTHEW 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
ACTS 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

4. Most of all, there are many people confessing that, there is only One God in 3 Persons. Jesus Christ is God and a Man.
MATTHEW 3:16-17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

How come people have different identities of Jesus and how can they believe on Jesus?

Therefore by Not Knowing The True Identity of Jesus, can't believe on Jesus in Romans 10:9
By not believing Romans 10:9 can't do the will of the Father in Matthew 7:21.

If you don;t mind, let me start in Romans 10:9-10; In verse 9, the word "saved" = "delivered" according to Strong's concordance of the Greek word "saved". Those that God gave to Jesus to redeem them from their sins were promised eternal salvation=deliverance.

Those that have that promise, when they come unto a knowledge of the truth are saved=delivered from their ignorance when they confess and believe.

Verse 10; For with the new heart (Ezk 11:19) man believes and confession is made unto salvation=deliverance (deliverance from their ignorance).

Philippians verse 10 & 11 - Correct me if I am miss-reading you, but it appeared to me that you are including all mankind to whom Paul is addressing these statements to, and I am correcting you in telling you that Paul is only addressing his statements to "all the saints in Christ Jesus which are of the Philippians church (Phil 1:1).

Philippians 2:13 - For it is God, which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure, just does not harmonize with 1 Cor 2:14 that describes the natural man, before he has been born again, being able to receive the things of the Spirit, thinking them to be foolishness.

Titus - When a person is born again spiritually, they do not git rid of their old fleshly nature, whose righteousness is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) (Rom 7:14-25). Paul left Titus in the church in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting, and to ordain elders.(verse 5). Verse 15 is describing the condition of some disobedient children of God, and instructing the elders, in verse 13, to rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith.

In order, to the best of my knowledge, to harmonize the scriptures, this is my interpretation of them.

I don't mind at all. Thanks for your work. I'm going to keep these different sections of Scripture separate so I can work on them separately. So, I'll remain in Romans with this post.

If you prefer "delivered" instead of "saved", they can be synonymous. I prefer to remain with "save" as in "salvation", but we can work with either as it looks like you do also. One of the things that becomes important with this word is what the author is saying being saved pertains to - saved from what?

I'd also prefer to remain with the section of Scripture we're looking at and not add things like "election" ("those God gave to Jesus...") which is another discussion.

Again, focusing not on the promise at this time, but on "saved from their ignorance":

• I can see how you get this from the context in Romans 10:1-3 but I don't see it as Paul's focus on being saved. In other words, their ignorance is keeping them from being saved, but saved from what?
• I see the main, overall context of being saved in Romans as what Paul says in Romans 5:9 = being saved from God's wrath and God's wrath being equated with God's judgment (Romans 2:5). Paul begins speaking of God's wrath against mens' ungodliness, unrighteousness and suppression of truth in Romans 1:18.
• Paul is still bringing up God's wrath in Romans 9:22 as he heads into Romans 10.
• I see Pauls' concern for his countrymen being their being saved from God's wrath and judgment which their ignorance of His righteousness is taking them to as they remain ignorantly insubordinate to God's righteousness - Jesus Christ (Romans 10:3)

Mostly answered above.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart " (that is, the word of faith which we preach):

• Paul quotes Deut30:14 and says it applies to the "word of faith" which he and others proclaim.
• The word of faith is the Good News of Jesus Christ
• I see Deut30:14 as Moses meaning if you have understanding of something in your heart, then you can also speak it. Moses goes on in Deut30 to also say you can do it.
• So, Paul proclaims the Good News of Jesus Christ so mean can hear it, understand it, believe it, speak it, do it.

10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

• The word/message/news of faith [in Jesus Christ] that Paul proclaims saves [from God's wrath and judgment]:
  • When men believe and confess that Jesus is the LORD whom God resurrected

10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

• "for" means Paul is explaining what he just said:
  • With the heart men believe God resurrected LORD Jesus
    • This results in righteousness
  • With the mouth men confess LORD Jesus
    • This results in salvation [from God's wrath and judgment against unrighteousness, ungodliness, etc..]

The reason Paul ordered these statements as he did is because they are in chiastic parallelism and they all go together:

10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation [from God's wrath/judgment]

That's my brief take. But there is much here and in close context to speak about re: Biblical Faith among other things.

Where am I "teach[ing] eternal deliverance by good works" as you said?

Paul was indeed writing to the Holy Ones in Christ Jesus in Philippi.

When he says the following, I see he means all of creation - every knee - is to bow at the name of the exalted Jesus Christ and confess/acknowledge He is Lord to the glory of God the Father. :


The language goes like this:

• God highly exalted Jesus Christ - God gave Jesus Christ the name above every name
• The reason or result of Jesus being highly exalted and being given the name above every name is:
  • Every knee of heavenly [men], and earthly [men], and subterranean [men] may/is to bow
    • The reason I'm including [men] here is simply because these are translating masculine adjectives.
  • and every tongue may/is to (could be "will" = future) confess/acknowledge that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, into/for glory [of] God [the] Father.

So, I don't see a reason to limit this to Christians to whom Philippians was written. In fact, how could it be so limited? Would Paul have to write this to all congregations? Isn't Jesus Christ the one with all authority in Heaven and on earth (Matt28) and the judge of all men (Acts17) and ultimately angels? I see this as Paul saying Jesus Christ is the exalted Lord whose name is above every name - and for this reason every knee is to bow before Him. I'd likely include the angelic realm as well (angels is also a masculine noun in Romans 8:38). In other words, recognition of who the Lord Jesus Christ truly is will someday be universal.

Maybe you have misunderstood me. I hope this clarifies it a bit. I'm open to well-explained alternate views.

Do you still see me "teach[ing] eternal deliverance by good works" as you said?

Disobedient children of God?

• Some need to be exposed/corrected/reproved for speaking against/opposing/refusing correct teaching 1:9
  • There are many especially from the circumcision, who are rebellious/refuse submission to authority, empty talkers/windbags, and deceivers who need to be silenced, who destroy/ruin whole households, teaching for shameful gain what is not fitting, Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies/gluttons 1:10-12
  • Command: Expose/correct/reprove them severely! 1:13

Sorry, hit save by mistake and edit timed out. Continuing

Disobedient children of God?

• Some need to be exposed/corrected/reproved for speaking against/opposing/refusing correct teaching 1:9
  • There are many especially from the circumcision, who are rebellious/refuse submission to authority, empty talkers/windbags, and deceivers who need to be silenced, who destroy/ruin whole households, teaching for shameful gain what is not fitting, Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies/gluttons 1:10-12
  • Command to Titus: Expose/correct/reprove them severely! so they may be correct in the faith 1:13
  • They're paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who reject/repudiate the truth 1:14
  • Some are defiled and unbelieving and nothing is clean - even their mind and conscience is defiled 1:15
  • The profess to know God but in works they deny/repudiate [Him} - they're disgusting/detestable, disobedient, disqualified for any good work 1:16

These are not disobedient children of God. These are defiled and unbelieving men who profess/confess to know God.

Some disgusting/detestable people (in Paul's view) needed to be exposed/corrected/reproved for opposing correct teaching, especially from the circumcision. They were confessing/professing to know God but obviously did not.

From this lesson from Paul, we can go back to Romans 10 and compare a false confession (here) to a true confession and belief fitting God's requirements for salvation.

Where do you see me teaching eternal salvation by good works?

Maybe you've misunderstood me. If you can take from these answering posts, maybe you can narrow it down for me if you still see a problem.

Thanks!

T
The will of the Father is firstly to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation.

It's not works first

Since it's the Father's will that we believe, and since He commands that we believe (1John3:23), is our belief also obedience to God's will?

Well works are a response to being given eternal life. Not the means of getting it. So obedience is the right response. Romans 6

Isn't the belief itself obedience? How does one obey a command to believe without being obedient at the same time one believes?