The Myth of Original Sin?

But baptism is for repentance and remission of sins children aren’t accountable for sin until they know right and wrong and can repent

He didn’t promise a new earth after the flood after that all happened much later he said this after the covenant was given to israel

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But then he said

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where nt doctrine about a new heaven and earth came from and why Peter is talking about this

“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ( that’s different from saying I’ll flood the earth and kill everyone and make a covenant with you Noah regarding the earth it’s a new thing God is doing )

Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 9-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God always only does what he says he’ll do it’s how we know to look for a new creation later by faith he promised

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Oh Jasper! I love his name!


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It seems to me Adam in the flesh would never have died without sin... that's why he had to be separated from the tree of life after he did sin: so he could die- otherwise we'd be trapped in this body of death forever.
(Although, I see there is little else in the way of proof-texts against the line of thinking that flesh-death was always intended from man's original condition).

But knowing God's goodness- and how he is not some narcissistic manipulator; Adam was clearly intended to eat from the tree of life and live forever in his original state. Of course God "planned" for the event when Adam would sin; but there's no way that was ever God's intent when he created Adam... that would make him even more messed up than mankind is.

Very informing viewpoint! I hadn't seen it that way before.


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Since Adam, and Eve SINNED without benefit of a "Sinful nature", there's no reason to believe that they had one, or that we "inherited" anything but the same HUMAN NATURE that they were created with.

"SINFUL NATURE" Is nothing but a "Theological theory", and so is "Original sin" that we're supposedly born with.

Eve was the "Original sinner", which was only "Original" because nobody had sinned before.

The Bible's clear that we die FOR OUR OWN SIN, not anybody else's (Deut 24:16, 1 Kings 14:6, 2 Chr 25:14).

Jesus had the SAME HUMAN NATURE I have (Since he was tempted as we are Heb 2:18, James 1:14).

You say Eve was the original sinner, but the Bible blames Adam. Do you happen to know why? (I'm asking because I'm not sure why.)


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That doesn't seem the position of the poster I was responding to.

Because Adam was the first created MAN, and was not deceived by satan. the MAN bears the responsibility, but Eve was the first one who sinned.

I think God blamed Adam because Adam was there when Eve was being deceived and did NOTHING to stop it. Adam had one job and he blew it!


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God blamed Adam because God chose Adam to represent all mankind, not Eve. Jesus is called the 2nd Adam because He also represented mankind before God. Romans 5 is a good place to check it out.

The first death was part of creation. God created all life on Earth as mortal, intended to die.


Spiritual death came by sin, the same death Adam and Eve suffered the exact day they sinned.


No.

What scripture do you believe lends itself to your view that physical death is part of the creative order?
If you have already stated it can you please indulge me?

Sure.

1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

A mortal body is sown but a different body is what shall be received. A death must take place before a "quickening" can occur which would be a resurrection.

That's an interesting take on those verses. How do you know it isn't the result of sin that causes this? Do you find other scripture to support this? Is there anything in Genesis that would tie it together?
You have piqued my interest in 1 Corinthians 15. I need to look at it more closely.

It goes back to Adam being mortal. No verse anywhere says he was created immortal and sinned and became mortal. I believe this shows Adam was mortal:

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Adam was in the natural body which is mortal NOT the spiritual body which is immortal.

A natural body is intended to die and be raised a spiritual body. Paul knew Adam was not created immortal because he says the first man was made "natural" which was a natural body as opposed to the "spiritual body" which is immortal.

1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


The first man Adam was earthy. That is another way of saying he was mortal.

1Pe_1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

This speaks of the flesh made from the dust, intended to wither away.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


This does not only apply post fall because Paul is using Adam as the example of the first man who was Earthly, having a "natural body" as opposed to a "spiritual body". Verse 46 makes it clear Adam was NOT in the spiritual body when he was created! This is evidence that Adam was in a mortal, natural, earthly body and NOT in a heavenly, super natural, spiritual body.


The two types of death that are not specified but did take place. The death from the sin was to happen that same day but they were physically alive. The NT speaks of living people as dead so there is a spiritual or symbolic death that exists separately from literal death of the body.

Second, the tree of life is protected from Adam so he cannot eat and become immortal which shows he was not previously immortal.



I included more of that so enjoy.

I appreciate the explanation, but I'm going to have to study it out, starting with context. But I'll share what I find.

Ok, thanks.

Joh 12:24 I tell you for certain that a grain of wheat that falls on the ground will never be more than one grain unless it dies. But if it dies, it will produce lots of wheat.
Joh 12:25 If you love your life, you will lose it. If you give it up in this world, you will be given eternal life.

I get the concept. But in the first verse, the seed doesn't actually die. It merely appears to. And in the second verse, death is either to self or metaphorical.

The verse says that a grain of wheat cannot be more than one grain unless it dies. Dying is the point and it has to happen before something greater does, which in context would be resurrection to immortality. I quoted just because it is related to the idea that the first death is natural and good and leads us to something greater, and not a result of punishment for sin. The second death is that.