The hatred of Jews

Edomites as a people are long since gone. Have no idea where you came up with this. The people in Israel are Jews. They were murdered in the Holocaust for being JEWS. They are being murdered now for being JEWS. Funny how some of you need DNA proof a Jew is Jew enough to be in Israel, yet Hitler murdered millions of them with no such proof. You all are unreal. The people in Israel are Jews, period!

...*knowing* that murdering innocent children is wrong.

Tell that to the Democrats. Now abortion is the primary platform of these evil people. But when there is a war, the innocent suffer as much as any others. That includes women and children. Does Hamas care about Palestinian children or does it use them as human shields? How come you are not asking these tough questions?

But the blame must go entirely to the Islamist terrorists. Hamas attacked Israel without any provocation. Israel had no choice except to respond with force. And Iran was directly behind that attack. And Joe Biden was directly behind Iran. So do you want to assign blame? Assign it to Biden, who has also made abortion his main platform (even though that is plain stupidity).

Observation - Muslim Influx:

In the past few months, there seem to be a lot of Muslims who've joined the forum, doing "gentle" apologetics for Islam, while pretending to be Christians... so we won't kick them out.

How to recognize them?
1.) These new Muslims are subtle on doctrine: subtly, gently questioning the doctrines of Christ, and of the resurrection. Subtly sowing little seeds of doubt.
2.) They are subtle yet clearly biased toward Islam: they always speak highly of Muslims, and the Koran... and less highly of Christians and the Bible.
3.) They have no subtlety on Israel: they join all threads dealing with Israel and Palestine... and always side against the Jews, who they accuse, of course, of atrocities.

How do we tell them from the "progressives" and "liberals' on the forum?
1.) There are progressives here who also side against Israel, and who dislike the Bible, and who don't like traditional Christianity.. but they're different.
2.) A few differences:
a. The progressives speak more naturally and less stilted, like English is their first language.
b. They are NOT well versed in the Koran, and don't try so hard to defend it.
c. They do NOT have much first-hand knowledge of the middle east, or of Islam.
d. The progressives are generally just angry and loud, while the Muslims tend to be more knowledgeable and subtle.


Be wise.

,

I don't claim to be wiser than anyone but I'll answer.

Biblically, no. The state doesn't have a biblical right to exist.

1. The name Israel was given to Ephraim, not Judah, by Jacob on his deathbed. This is why when the kingdom split the southern kingdom became known as Judah. So even if they were Jews gathered together in the land, without the northen house they are in violation. It should be the State of Judah.

2. The Messiah is the king, the Holy One; The Government of Israel as true Israel is a Theocracy, not a democracy. So without Him, any other "Israel" is illegitimate.

3. Prophesy: Israel would not be regathered until AFTER the Messiah returns and regathers them. This is a literal event with the Person of the Godhead here, not an allegorical or spiritual fulfillment where world events play out to make it so. Scripture is clear.

4. Prophecy: The reestablishment will not be with strength or (military) might but with the Spirit of Almighty. And it will immediately follow the resurrection, because scripture is clear that all Israel returns home at once, together; both houses.

5. Prophecy: They are punished for rejecting the Messiah and breaking the commandments: kicked out of the land, lose their identity, and cursed to worship gods of wood and stone (by the way, the Kaaba stone of Islam is a stone surrounded by wood) until they repent from the things that kicked them out. They will not be healed and regathered until they return to the Almighty with all their hearts.

6. Prophecy: Once true Israel is in the land there will be peace, as they live in "unwalled villages". They will not be building partitions constantly. And they will not be warring with anyone.

So no the current state of Israel has no legitimacy or right to the land. It's not a work of the Almighty but of the god of this world. satan deceives the whole world.

Thanks for your first reply. I mean the verses that mention the two witnesses in Jerusalem, Revelation 11...The gathering of the nations to the valley of Megiddo in Rev 16:16

And most importantly, this:

Zechariah 14:

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

The ye who are fleeing are Israelites, because its talking about how they fled in the past during the days of king Uzziah.
So clearly there are some Israelites there.

NOW I remember why it's such a fruitless endeavor to engage Scripture with you!

You are the author of such awful heresies as THIS:

Yahshua
Senior Member
#6
"Salvation (Justification) isn't the same as eternal life (Glorification). Eternal life is the reward for the work one does to build on the foundation that is the Messiah."



You do not believe in the finished work of our Lord, Jesus Christ. You believe YOUR works give you Eternal Life. This in effect tramples on the Blood of Christ.

So if you are SOOOO wrong on that vital doctrine, there is no sense to talk about other Biblical issues.

The name Israel was given to Ephraim, not Judah, by Jacob on his deathbed.

View attachment 262854

Just like with Daniel, John was given a series of visions that detailed different aspects of the same general timeframe (future to him). I've tried to visualize it in the table above. Each new vision is marked by a phrase similar to "and lo I saw..." and generally ends with "thunders and hail and lightning; it is done".

- Chapters 4-11 are a progressive vision of heaven's throne through to the judgment of earth from their perspective.
- Chapters 12-16 are a progressive vision and the actions of the enemies of God from Earth's POV through to their judgment.
- Chapters 17-18 are visions detailing the great harlot, the beast, the bride, and the judgment of God's enemies.

Certain events are summarized while more detail of those same events is given in other portions. So chapter 11 summarizes the events detailed in chapters 13-16, and chapters 17-20 provide even more detail of events in chapters 13-16.

To your question:

I believe Chapter 11 isn't the gathering of the nations against God's people, rather the chapter prophesies the persecution and then scattering of God's people into the Christian nations under Catholicism spanning 1,260 years. The two witnesses are the remnant of the two houses of Israel who are obedient to The Almighty and who have faith in the Messiah.

- Chapter 10 gives us a description of a mighty messenger standing on the earth and the sea saying "There is no more delay!" This is a callback to Daniel 12:7 where the man in linen, standing in a similar location, lifted up His hands and said the time of great trouble wouldn't be for some time, but that when the people are scattered the time of trouble would be completed.

- Chapter 11 gives the timeframe 1260 days for the testimony of the two witnesses
- Chapter 13 gives the same timeframe of 42 months when the beast of the sea abuses the saints
- Recorded history confirms that it took about nearly 1300 years to scatter God's people.




Sure. we have Zech 14:4 that reads:

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.


^ Clearly this is the physical presence of God, but when is it? Well, we're given another clue in verse 8:


8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.


^ The day verse 4 happens is the same day living waters flow out of Jerusalem. There are two passages I recall that mention living waters flowing out of Jerusalem:


Revelation 22:1-2
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city.


Ezekiel 47:1-12
The man brought me back to the entrance to the temple, and I saw water coming out from under the threshold of the temple toward the east (for the temple faced east)...


So both passages mark the timing of this water-flowing event as after the Gog-Magog war of Revelation 21, which is after the millennium reign of Revelation 20...and The Millennium Reign of Revelation 20 is after the resurrection.

So per Revelation's order, the nations do not gather together against Jerusalem until after the resurrection and 1000-year reign.

Likewise, the Ezekiel 47 event is after the fiery destruction of the nations by the Almighty in Ezekiel 39, which is after Gog & Magog is tempted to attack Jerusalem at peace in Ezekiel 38, which is after the resurrection and regathering event described in Ezekiel 37.

Again, we know that the resurrection and the millennium reign haven't happened in human history, so Zechariah 14:1-4 isn't describing the current events in the Middle East. The resurrection happens before the nations gather together against Jerusalem.

Thus Zechariah 14:3-4 describes The Almighty descending to earth to destroy the nations with fire after the millennium, it doesn't describe The Messiah's 2nd coming.


Ezekiel 37-47
- Messiah returns, resurrects, and regathers His people
- United Israel returns home
- They live in peace in unwalled villages
- Gog & Magog are tempted to attack
- The Almighty destroys them (Zech 14:3-7)
- The Great Temple
- The river of life flows out of it

Revelation 19-22
- Messiah returns, regathers His people
- Destruction of the beast and his army
- The Millenium reign
- The Gog & Magog nations surround the camp of God's people
- The Almighty destroys them (Zech 14:3-7)
- New Jerusalem
- The river of life flows out of it

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.


PennEd, what's wild is I can post passages like ^this^ with no commentary and then ask what it says...and yet some would still accuse me of having the wrong doctrine or somehow manipulating the passage. The scriptures are replete with the same message. There's a reason we all don't instantaneously take on immortality upon confession. We have to build on the foundation. After salvation, we have to participate.

Really? Yet "Jacob" and "Israel" are used for the twelve tribes interchangeably in Scripture.

And even though only three tribes were present in the province of Judah, that is still called "Israel". While speaking of Judah Christ Himself called it "Israel". See Matthew 8:10, 9:33, 10:6,23; 15:24. etc.

Again.
It's disturbing that you believe the purpose of the Bema Seat of Christ is to determine who did enough good works, and didn't do an unknown number of bad works, to be saved unto Eternal Life.

There is no difference between that belief, and every other religion on Earth that in one way or another teaches that if your good works outweigh your bad works you get in.

The text itself tells us the works are judged for REWARDS, NOT Salvation. Some are going to be the LEAST in the Kingdom, but they WILL be IN the Kingdom.

Please repent of that heresy.

Interesting view, I will study this further. Zechariah 14 & Rev 22 & Ezekiel 47 do match. I will look into it. So you would still agree that the gathering of the nations to the valley of Armageddon in Rev 16 is still prior to the second coming?

I actually like white American cheese but never tell anyone for fear of being called a cheese racist.

Orange cheese bad?

Yes, really.

All cheese is good. I believe manna was actually cheese.

And that is totally bizarre.