I have come across an idea lately within this forum, that some believe that there are 2 classes of Christian. They believe that there is a class called 'the elect', who have no choice but to be saved because God has decided they will be saved no matter what and the 2nd class being those who are not elect but are still able to be saved through choosing Christ.
This is different from Calvinism as Calvinism believes God decides, or has decided, who will be saved and who will never be saved.
It is also not Arminianism because choice is given, according to this belief, to everyone.
While people will continue to debate reformed vs non-reformed, this 2 tier believer system is not available as a 3rd option that I have found nor anyone else or anywhere for that matter. I have searched different teachers/teachings, various articles and so on and the conclusions of people more knowledgeable than anyone in this forum, is that it does not exist.
Just interested in what others might have to say. I have no idea whether or not the person(s) presenting this idea will defend what they believe or not.
For clairity's sake, I am neither reformed or non-reformed. I tend to think that no one can come up with exactly what the Bible has in mind when it states 'from the foundation of the world'. I do not agree with the approach of Calvinism to settle it and I do not appreciate the Arminiam viewpoint either because of problems it presents.
Not to start another debate about reformed/vs non, we have a library of those already, but to take a look at the elect who have no choice in being saved and the rest of humanity who can choose whether or not to accept Christ.
That's about it.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
1. Calvinism is not true for God wants all people to be saved.
We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love.
Calvinism goes against the nature of God that He is love, and good.
God does not choose who will be saved, and not saved, without their choice in the matter for His kingdom is true love, and He is not evil to condemn people who have no choice but to reject the truth seeing no other alternative.
You can program your computer to say I love you, but does your computer love you, and you can program your computer to say I hate you, and will you get mad and smash your computer.
An what criteria would God use to decide who is saved, and not saved without their choice when all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is none that does good, no, not one, and He is no respecter of persons, and what makes you to differ from another, and if you break the least of the law then you broke all the law, and there is no difference between a Jew and a Gentile.
God is good, and love, so why would He allow people to be born in the world that have no choice but to reject the truth in which they will be punished.
Why are the people that reject the truth being punished when they have no choice but to reject the truth.
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world but it was a future event.
The prophets blood was slain from the foundation of the world but it was a future event.
The kingdom was prepared from the foundation of the world although Jesus told the disciples He goes away to prepare a place for them.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh, which is a plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and without that plan He would of not created anything that was created.
The saints being predestined to salvation does not mean God chooses who will be saved without their choice, but it means God had the plan to give salvation to mankind from the foundation of the world.
But this salvation is to whoever wants this salvation for the Spirit and bride say Come, and whosoever will let him take the water of life freely.
So this is saying anybody can have salvation.
Many are called but few are chosen.
Not many noble, not many mighty, not many wise after the flesh are called.
We did not choose God but He chose us.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.
When God calls a person He will work in their life to bring them to the truth, and when they get to the truth that have to choose to go through the door for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not got to the door of truth is He did no intervene in their life.
And the door of truth is to abstain from sin by the Spirit which a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, for they have crucified the flesh with the lusts and affections.
Which the Lord knows them which are His having this seal that all who name the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Which not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter heaven for they were workers of iniquity not doing the will of the Father.
Which some have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and are lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.
The Bible says turn away from these people which they love the things of the world, the music, the movies, and entertainment, the alcohol, and the drugs, and the cigarettes, and the sexual pleasures, but believe they have salvation despite doing those things making an excuse that they are only human, they are not perfect, they cannot abstain from sin.
But there is no excuse and John said love not the world, or the things in the world, and if anyone does the love of the Father is not in them.
Calvinists seem like they fit the description of having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, for they believe they cannot fall so they enjoy sin, and believe they are right with God.
But the Bible says if you think you stand, take heed lest you fall, which they become relaxed in their walk with God falling short of being Christlike.
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