How many sins were forgiven by Son on that cross to his Father

"OBTUSE"
Look it up, then judge yourself wherein you fall in the line.

Any argument for argument's sake proves fruitless to the proponent of and the receiver thereof, only comes across as OBTUSE !

Your last statement is true, but not a complete definition of sin. Sin is also the transgression of the law, and anything that is not of faith. So I still contend that a person can transgress the law and not be cognizant of it. Further, the example you use has both servants being beaten. Thus, both were held accountable...even the one who didn't know he was committing an offense.

Yes brother

“and anything that is not of faith.”

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

Coming from faith means you know because you heard it’s not faith if you don’t know something to believe .

you arent understanding what I’m saying . If you have two children and you Inform one of a rule and the other you don’t inform of the rule

If each does what the rule said not to do ……which one is guilty ? Which one transgressed your rule ?

Your last statement is true, but not a complete definition of sin. Sin is also the transgression of the law, and anything that is not of faith. So I still contend that a person can transgress the law and not be cognizant of it. Further, the example you use has both servants being beaten. Thus, both were held accountable...even the one who didn't know he was committing an offense.

are you talking about Moses law ?

Yes brother

“and anything that is not of faith.”

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

Coming from faith means you know because you heard it’s not faith if you don’t know something to believe .

you arent understanding what I’m saying . If you have two children and you Inform one of a rule and the other you don’t inform of the rule

If each does what the rule said not to do ……which one is guilty ? Which one transgressed your rule ?

are you talking about Moses law ?

Both broke the law. One purposefully; the other ignorantly.

I'm talking about any law.

How did the one break your rule when you never told them the rule ? It doesn’t exist for them ….

“because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭4:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If there’s no law in my mind and heart it’s not sin if I do that thing I’m not aware of

if I don’t know your rule it’s impossible le for me to break your rule, if you told me then I can break it .

There is a big difference between sins being "paid for" at the cross and sins being "forgiven" at the cross. ALL sins were paid for at the cross, but none were forgiven at the cross.

The ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross made it possible for all sins to be forgiven. But first there must be repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21). Repentance is for the remission or forgiveness of sins.

“But if ye be led of the Spirit,

ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:18‬ ‭

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

back to my example if you the father don’t I form the child d they do something wrong it isn’t a sin in has to be “transgression of “ that means you have to be aware of something to transgress it

if I don’t tell you the rule , you can’t possibly transgress my rule because of ignorance

You absolutely have to know you are sinning or have sinned for it to be a transgression that’s a knowing breaking of whatever the rule happens to be

If there’s no law in my heart , I can’t sin and break it

transgression” an act that goes against a law, rule, or code of conduct; an offense.”

i can’t transgress a law I don’t know about

Even though death reigned anyway, from Adam to Moses, then the knowledge of sin entered in, and people the first Chosen got to see they cannot be perfect in their first born flesh and blood. Wandered in the wilderness for forty years, griping, moaning and complaining, not able to do it perfectly at all. Under Law, that no one can fathom to do it perfectly ever, need to do it yet can't, only God can and did that by Son for us (Galatians 3:19-26)

Then Son comes into the picture and fulfills the Law and Prophets perfectly in Love and mercy to us the people to now choose to believe God or not in Son as risen or not. The Gentiles included, not just the first chosen anymore, Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then as I know I did, from youth chose to believe God, not convicted under Law until later on, when entered a Building of people trying to be righteous by trying to do Law perfectly and asking for more forgiveness weekly to keep forgiven and saved by God in Son for them.
The Pastor told me when I asked this ?. Didn't you say Jesus went to that cross and died once for us all as are now forgiven 100%?
He said yes, I did preach that, and why you asking this?
Well, I ask because if my sins are all forgiven by God in Son for me, why am I to ask for more? He said to me have you sinned again this week before coming back here. I replied yes! I have.
That is why we do this weekly to keep, remain forgiven by God.
Therefore I read the Bible in the forgiveness issue given by God

Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Jesus, himself, went to that cross without a fight back in of flesh and blood, "The Art of Fighting without Fighting" and willingly shed his blood once for us all to turn to belief to see, he is now risen and desires to save any one that will believe him in his done work for them. Not to be repented of ever again Jesus is the Spiritual light, not the physical light yet they are synonymous


John 19:30

Authorized (King James) Version

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That was and is the final sacrifice for forgiveness given to us the people. Done from God to us all through Son for us.
There is no further repentance than what is done for us to be new in his risen Life to go new in Father's Spirit and Truth

The Old (First) Testament, was set up for the sacrifices in shedding blood to get and be forgiven, as God was not pleased in at all, revealed in Hebrews 10, to see this truth, thank you
I now tell God thank you, that by Son you have reconciled me ( 2 Cor 5:17-20) And I know you do not see sin, ever since Son took it away for me and all others also (John 1:29). Therefore I ask this, for me to see, from your present view Father, how to say no to any and all unrighteousness without pride as I have gotten many a times entered in me, thinking I got it as in Luke 18:9-14 tells me the first part of those verses of being proud as if one is better than another, when no one is better than anyone else ever.

So I enter


Psalm 100:4

Authorized (King James) Version

4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving,
and into his courts with praise:
be thankful unto him, and bless his name.


Psalm 103:12

Authorized (King James) Version

12 As far as the east is from the west,
so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Amazing Grace as John Newton saw it and wrote Amazing Grace song, once he saw it as a gift, and knew what he deserved to get and God did not impute that on him
Blessed are those that do not get sin imputed on them, get out from under Law to see from God how to uphold;d Law
Thank you

Do you think Jesus our lord has the right to set the conditions for mans salvation given that he is the one who laid down his life to save us ?

what I mean is since Jesus died for our sins , what then do we do with the things he taught us to do and said would save us ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It was not offered to all mankind, for their acceptance.

“the threat here is temporal and physical punishment, even death”

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 6-7, 10-14‬ ‭

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“…..the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to repent we can’t keep sinning he’s being patient

“He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont really understand how Christianity got so far away from the basic doctrines of the Bible

“the threat here is temporal and physical punishment, even death”

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6:4-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:

and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:2-3, 6-7, 10-14‬ ‭

“He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:21, 23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“…..the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-13, 15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to repent we can’t keep sinning he’s being patient

“He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

i dont really understand how Christianity got so far away from the basic doctrines of the Bible

You can transgress a law unconsciously.

A Human law ? yes ignorance isn’t an excuse in a court room I agree . Gods law of the spirit of life is not like that , he deals with men individually according to what they know.

“And that servant, which knew his Lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:

and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s simple if we just accept what it says

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭

Realize how that takes away me judging you or you judging anyone else ? Gods spirit is with each believer he’s the one n us and teaching us what we come to know he’s allowing us to learn and grow and accept things he’s trying to teach us .

But me ? I have no idea what you or anyone else knows between the Holy Spirit and your own self but we also can’t pretend we dont know we’re sinning when we are if we do o ow because again Gods holt spirit is t going to be deceived he’s within our heart and mind

our relationship with Jesus is truly a personal one no one else is going to be judged by what I know but what they themselves know is right and wrong is the point

Sin is when you know you are doing something against Gods Will

All, a few or none, is it done or not for us to be new in belief to he is risen or not?
Just asking, I believe it is finished John 19:30, then in the risen Son one gets this and a new life to lead them in Spirit and Truth John 4:23-24 as Father leads in one's being willing, not ever forced to believe by God anyway is my experience