trinity is controversial?

Correct. Our spirit, soul and body are not co-equal.

That's an interesting key ring the Lord has.

Revelation 1:18

Yet not one time has the Father ever been described as a bodiless spirit. If you've seen the son you have seen the father so both are visible and have been seen and described. The HS is a spirit without body, except the one time when it was important for people to see the HS (as a dove). Otherwise the HS is a bodiless, invisible spirit but not the Father.

The book with the 7 seals was handed from Father to the Son in Rev as well.

Yeah I’ve never heard of those . I’ve heard people say Jesus is Micheal an archangel but I assume they haven’t read Hebrews usually lol and also I’ve heard he’s Enoch ….even Elijah

Yeah He God appears throughout the Bible ….starting from the first verse . If you want to know about the Son you have to study the gospel when he came into the world and took the form of a man

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where you’ll learn of the son of God and when you realize he’s one then you’ll also see him before he became flesh here

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Same person different form

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

…He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-3, 10, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Same creator now born in the flesh the son of God our high priest the man who was born lived and died now has become our mediator and savior our advocate and intercessor

God did this

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now there is an intercessor for mankind the son of God

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Went from an accuser to an advocate

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:

all things were created by him, ( father )

and for him: ( son )

and he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Isn't every person one whole complete individual.”

yeah a person is one complete individual not to or three persons as a group but a person is one complete being

But a persons spirit is not a different person from the persons body the two make the one complete person the spirit and body are two aspects of the individual it’s not a group


“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father , the Word, ( god said ) and the Holy Ghost: ( spirit of God ) and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How many persons are there ? Three persons acting as one ? Or one person with a living spirit that speaks ?

Actually that is incorrect, God the Father cannot be seen even according to Jesus Christ Himself. John 5:37, "And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, NOR SEEN HIS FORM." John 6:46, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, except he who is from God, he hath seen the Fathers." Then there is 1 Timothy 6:16 that you can read for yourself.

Jesus said at John 14:9, Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, "Show us the Father?" Jesus is NOT the Father! The point Jesus is making is the fact that the Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. To see the Son is to see the ESSENCE/NATURE of the Father. (John 1:1, 18; a0:30; 12:45; Colossians 1:15; Hebrews 1:3.) Please read these verses.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Well, it could be either, three persons, or one; based on the particular language used there.

If all three Persons are spirit, and all three govern communally as one God, All three are spirit, and communally are also spirit.

And don't forget that Peter also called the Holy Spirit both God and the Spirit of the Lord (Jesus).

This is what Peter said to both Ananias and his wife Sapphira

3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land?
4..........>..You have not lied to man but to God.
9 But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord?

And if we want to really clarify this, the Book of Acts confirms Isaiah as Isaiah confirms what Peter said in Acts because we know the LORD in the Old Testament is also Jesus.

16 ..........>..and now the Lord GOD hath sent me, and His Spirit.




We know Jesus is I AM (John chapter 8 before Abraham was I AM) and the LORD from Exodus:

19:
24 Then the LORD caused to rain upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven

LORD here in both places on earth and in Heaven is the same YHWH/Yahweh

And we know who YHWH/Yahweh is (I AM).
3:
4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said: 'Moses, Moses.' And he said: 'Here am I.'
14 And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'

6:
2 And God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him: 'I am the LORD;
3 and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I made Me not known to them.

Being trained and raised in Synagogue between ages 6 to 13 allowed me to know who the Old Testament God truly was.
So when I added the New Testament it was like a perfect puzzle put together

“Therefore, it is clear that in at least some instances, the angel of the Lord is a theophany, an appearance of God in physical form.”

“they had “seen the Lord.”

Yes sister the Old Testament is mediated by angels God was communicating with men from Heaven using his heavenly messengers and also using chosen men that he made clean for himself like Isaiah or Daniel or Moses .

God divided creation between heaven and earth

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So you have this dynamic in the ot

“The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men. From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth. He fashioneth their hearts alike; He considereth all their works.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭33:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and God in heaven has heavenly messengers and servants we know as angels. That carry his messages to people on earth

They are spiritual heavenly beings made to serve God in heaven for the good of mankind who will inherit salvation . That is one of an angels charters in thier purpose of being created.

“And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.

But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, Until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:6-7, 13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So after man sinned and corrupted the earth , God in heaven would send angels as his messengers speaking for him like this

“And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, …..Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:2, 4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see how the angel of the lord has appeared as a mediator speaking to Moses as God carrying his message to a man on earth so the authority and name the message is of God but he hasn’t actually appeared himself ?

Moses did eventually meet him and shortly after they built a calf and then it became this again

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. ( beware of him he will not pardon your transgression my name is in him ) And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the difference in the New Testament is the mediator isnt an angel speaking for God , it’s God become a man mediating for us his own word

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

…. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14, 18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think even in prophecy we see the Old Testament given to Moses and the prophets

We see the mediation of angels like here

“And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD,

and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you still see the angel mediating Gods message Joshua is standing before the angel of the lord not the lord himself or like in revelation that gates for the Old Testament people the tribes of Israel each gate has an angel attending it

“and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think they didn’t understand what we do because they didn’t have the gospel preached or the Holy Ghost in them or remission of sins ect they were seeing an angel but hearing the words from God who sent the angel his messenger

The New Testament removes the angelic mediation and ordination and you just have God as a man saying it’s me here I am listen to me and believe and you’ll live with me forever …..

Some have a hard time with this part that did actually happen like he’s saying

“And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush. When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him, ….This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.


…This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


….And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, and cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:30-31, 35, 38, 41-43, 51, 53-58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So there is that substitution of sorts of an angel as a steward of God operating in his name and authority before Jesus came forth. It was the angel who actually went before them and caused them to win battles and also killed and destroyed many of them with his unforgiving disposition

you sure that helps ?😂

I do indeed, Brother. I think it gives me an advantage because instead of being told this and that via man made doctrine. I was able to let the Two Covenants confirm each other

The Synagogue (Yeshiva) never mentions the New Testament so you can really focus on the Torah/Prophets/Psalms and God and His Spirit.
But as soon as you add the New Testament there is no denying who Jesus is. Yes, Jews do deny who Jesus is but in their minds they are wondering because He fulfills over 300 Tanakh Prophecies in 4 simple Gospel Texts.

Haha I was just poking brother 😂

He is talking to certain people not saying no one has seen his form. John saw the Father in Rev.


He does here:

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Rev 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

A third issue is that the classical description of triunity is unnecessarily complicated and esoteric because of a priori assumptions that descriptions of the biblical God must not clash with platonic metaphysical premises concerning the uncaused cause.