Baptism

One more thought on this…. The only thing that is “obvious” is what the Bible says about baptism and discipleship. Baptism is ALWAYS taught in the NT that it happens at conversion.

So would you say repentance is a work? Does a person need to pray to be saved? Would that make prayer a work? How about hearing the Gospel? If someone hears the message, they are doing something…does that make them ”working” for their salvation? Jesus told his disciples to teach and baptize…so you are suggesting Jesus was instructing them to perform works? And if it’s not necessary or important, why command it?

Your problem is you see anything other than internal accent to an idea as a ”work.” That is not how the Bible describes ”works.” Baptism is not a work anymore than repentance or praying for mercy is a work. Baptism is a response to Christ’s work…as repentance is.

I dont have time to respond to all these verses at this moment, however, I dont think your argument makes sense. Why would Paul tell them to repent and be baptized for forgiveness of sins and receiving the Holy Spirit if it wasn’t something that would happen at that moment? Are you suggesting they weren’t forgiven either? How long do you suppose they needed to wait for God to get around to forgiving them? Weeks? Months? Years? Clearly the implication here is if they respond in this way, God will immediately respond by forgiving them and granting the Spirit. In fact, the text goes on to say,



The text in Acts 15 you quote is referring to The account in Acts 10. In Acts 11, Peter explains why they baptized the Gentiles. He makes it clear that they were unwilling to baptize them until they saw the miraculous sign of the Spirit falling on them which convinced they they should not “withhold” baptism. So, this was the first time Gentiles were being welcomed into the church and God gave them the sign of the miraculous gift of the Spirit because the Jewish believers were unwilling to baptize them.

Also, I think you are confusing the miraculous gifts given by the Apostles to believers by the laying on of hands. Nothing indicates these believers didn’t receive the indwelling Spirit at baptism.…especially when multiple Scriptures indicate this is the case. They were given the unique and sometimes miraculous gifts at the laying on of the Apostles hands…which is why Simon wanted the Apostles to lay their hands on him to give him those supernatural gifts. We shouldn’t conflate that with conversion.
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I dont know what 1 Cor 1 has to do with this. The point Paul is making is that people were misappropriating baptism to mean that they were more important based on who baptized them. Paul is not saying he is glad they weren’t baptized…he’s saying hes glad he didnt perform it so they would claim special standing based on his name. If anything, this text shows that early believers put a great amount of weight on the meaning of their baptism. Unfortunatly, these Corinthians were putting their confidence in the person who baptized them rather than in Jesus.
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There's more than one meaning of that word. You simply choose the one most convenient for your argument.

Can you show me other meanings for the word? I‘ve studied several years of Koine Greek and the only definition I have ever seen is “immerse, or dip”

Something can be dipped without being fully immersed, e.g. "I dipped my toe in the water."

You immersed your toe in the water.

Acts 2:38 points out three separate things that must occur in order for believers to be reborn:
1. Repent,
2. AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, (sins are forgiven at this point)
3. AND ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Please take the time to look at the detailed accounts below. They prove people do not receive the Holy Ghost when they get baptized in water. I've included the actual scripture below the notes.

Concerning Acts 8:12-17:
1. The people believe the gospel message preached by Philip. They respond by being water baptized. (verse 12)
2. Simon is baptized as well.
3. Peter and John pray for people, who were water baptized days earlier, to receive the Holy Ghost . (verse 14+15)
a. This should make one question exactly what was missing. How did people know they had not received the Holy Ghost?
b. The account is specific. The men assisted the individuals to receive the Holy Ghost, not spiritual gifts.
4. The account confirms again that the individuals had been baptized in water but had not received the Holy Ghost. (verse 16)
5. Notice, the people received the Holy Ghost when Peter and John laid hands on them. The scripture is specific, they did not receive spiritual gifts. (verse 17)
6. When Simon saw that the HOLY GHOST was given he offered them money to be able to lay hands on people to receive what? The HOLY GHOST. Again no mention of spiritual gifts. (verse 18)
7. The HOLY GHOST is specifically referenced again. (verse 19)


Acts 8:12-17 (the actual scripture)
12 But when THEY BELIEVED PHILIP preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, THEY WERE BAPTIZED, both men and women...
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when HE WAS BAPTIZED, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when THEY were come down, PRAYED FOR THEM THAT THEY MIGHT RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST:
16 (FOR AS YET HE WAS FALLEN UPON NONE OF THEM: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 THEN LAID THEY THEIR HANDS ON THEM AND THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands THE HOLY GHOST WAS GIVEN, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST.



Concerning Acts 10:43-48:
1.The people received the Holy Ghost first, and were water baptized afterward. (verse 44 + 48)
2. Note verse 43, and what it reveals. Those who believe in Jesus will receive remission of sins through His name. In what biblical command do we see a connection between the name of Jesus and receiving remission of sin? It's water baptism.
a. In Acts 2:38 Peter said everyone is to be baptized in the name of Jesus is for remission of sins.
b. Each and every detailed baptism account confirms the apostles administered water baptism in the name of Jesus.

Acts 10:43-48 (the actual scripture)
"43 To him give all the prophets witness, that THROUGH HIS NAME whosoever believeth in him SHALL RECEIVE REMISSION OF SINS.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON ALL THEM which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
47 Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST as well as we?
48 And HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD..."



Concerning Acts 19:2-8:
1. Paul's initial question indicates the Holy Ghost is not automatically received when a person believes in Jesus. (verse 2)
2. When the Ephesians say they don't know anything about a Holy Ghost Paul understands they have not heard the entire gospel message. And asks how they were baptized in order to determine how to proceed.
2. Paul tells them about Jesus and they obey the NT command and get rebaptized in water in the name of Jesus. (verse 4 + 5) Note: they do not receive the Holy Ghost at this point.
3. It is after Paul lays hands upon the twelve individuals that they receive the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues was the evidence that they had received the Holy Ghost. (verse 6)
4. Paul stayed there in Ephesus for three months preaching the same message. (verse 8)


Acts 19:1-8 (actual scripture)
2 He (Paul) said unto them, Have ye RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the HOLY GHOST came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.




Concerning Acts 9:17-18, 22:16:
Apostle Paul received the Holy Ghost when Ananias laid hands upon him. At that point the scales fell from his eyes and he obeyed the command to be baptized.


Acts 9:17-18
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he (Ananias) said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Acts 2:3–4 (ESV): And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 8:16 (ESV): for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 11:15 (ESV): 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning.

Acts 19:5–6 (ESV): On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

Not unless I put my entire toe in the water. Dipped strawberries aren't immersed.

I included 1 Cor 1:13 because Paul's statement clarifies the use of the singular name of Jesus in connection with water baptism.
"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:13


In every detailed account, we see water baptism administered in the name of Jesus as well:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)


Acts 10:48
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, AND by the Spirit of our God.

Colossians 3:17
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

I only eat immersed strawberries.

Something can be dipped without being fully immersed, e.g. "I dipped my toe in the water."

So you actually like chocolate more that strawberries 😁

Lol..ok. But when Scripture says, “they were baptized” or “Paul was baptized” the clear message is THEY (the people) or PAUL was baptized. Not their toes…them. It seems you are conceding the fact the word means to immerse. But now you are suggesting the immersion has a qualifier such as “their toe” or whatever. But we dont see those qualifiers. We see it was the person immersed. Moreover, archeology has shown that all the early churches had large stone baptismals carved into the floor of the buildings that were essentially large bathtubs. This would seem to be a lot of waste if they were only dipping a person‘s head or foot.

I conceded no such thing but you go with that if it makes you feel better. Theology by word definition never ends well.

Repentance is a response of man, so it is a work. Prayer is an activity of man, so it is a work.
If someone responds to a sermon, it is because God has been at work in them providing hearing, circumcising their hearts, which affects their will.
Acts 2:37 reveals this:
And when they heard...hearing...they were pricked in their hearts...circumcision...what shall we do...the will.
Acts 2:38 are the proper responses...works...that correspond to the saving work of God.

This is not how the Bible defines “works.” Works is never defined as a person’s response to God’s grace. That is the opposite of a work. Works implies an attempt to earn righteousness by merit (see Romans 4:4-8). Accepting a gift is not working for it. It is the opposite of working for it.

I doubt when you accept and unwrap a gift at Christmas you would consider that “working” for the gift. The work was done in earning the money to purchase the gift. Accepting it and unwrapping it is merely the act of receiving the gift. To not accept and unwrap the gift would be seen as offensive to the giver of the gift.

Repentance is not a work. It is a turning away from sin as a response of being confronted with God’s mercy, love and the opportunity to live a new life. This is not done to “earn” salvation but is a response to the salvation that has already be given. We don’t add to the righteousness Christ gives us by being baptized or confessing our sins. Rather, we are embracing the righteousness he is giving to us.

The idea that it is somehow offensive to God to be baptized or turn from sin because the penintent person is attempting to earn God’s favor is wholly unbiblical. Why would Jesus command his disciples to baptize people the very act was contrary to grace? Should a person do nothing in the face of God’s gift of grace? Are you suggesting that the only appropriate response to the Gospel is to do nothing? This is a very unhealthy view of Christianity, imo. Jesus didn’t die to give us knowledge. He died to transform our lives. That transformation begins with repentance, confession of sins, baptism and living a new life out of gratitude for the grace we have received. That is VERY different from trying to earn God’s favor through our own righteous actions. The entire book of James is dedicated to undermining this false notion.

The best way to baptized. Any teaching on this please

Okay, well I am still waiting for an alternate definition of the word.