All Of Israel, Or Just A Remnant?

14

John 6:37

God love everyone and wants all saved.

Roms 11 explains things well

We can all be part of the family.

It is about faith not blood line.

If you want someone to pay attention to your stand that you believe that Gog wants everyone to be saved, you will have to give the particular verses that relates that.

Yes, God judges his born again elect children as they sojourn here on earth, (Heb 14:6_ and they will not face judgement at the last day, and will not experience the second death (Rev 20:14-15) (Matt 25:32-41)

God only judges his elect as they sojourn here on earth, and he does not judge the others until the last day (Psalms 73, especially verse 5, They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued (divinely punished) like other men.) David was envious at the foolish, when he saw the prosperity of the wicked (Psalms 73:3) Until he went into sanctuary of God; and understood their end (verse 17).

Are these just your thoughts, or do you have scripture for them?

I don't even know what you're arguing for or why you're so mad/concerned/baffled, but the ONLY path to God is through Christ, if we are in Christ we are grafted into Israel. The ONLY way to be reconciled to our Creator. I don't understand what you're claiming no one can understand like you, but you're not a very good communicator, because I have no idea at all what point you're trying to make in this comment. Can you dumb it down for a very simple and straight forward person? What are we getting so wrong that you have the inside scoop on, you next level Christian you.

All Israel may be a reference to all the tribes.. That meaning all types of Israel.. In the book of Revelation 12,000 innocents from each of the 12 tribes are sealed, the total being 144,000.. So that bay be what all Israel may be pointing to.. Then again they may be pointing to the surviving Israel at the time of the return of Jesus.. I have never believed in meant all Israel down throughout the ages.. Other passages of the Bible make that position untenable..

“You misunderstand the gospel.”

i don’t think so , I think a lot of folks never actually read the gospel or study it so they think it’s something it isn’t .

a look at your words here and the quotes your using

“Yes, God judges his born again elect children as they sojourn here on earth, (Heb 14:6_ and they will not face judgement at the last day, and will not experience the second death (Rev 20:14-15) (Matt 25:32-41)”

“Yes, God judges his born again elect children as they sojourn here on earth, “(Heb 14:6_

There is no Hebrews 14:6

“they will not face judgement at the last day, and will not experience the second death (Rev 20:14-15) (Matt 25:32-41)”


“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:32-46‬ ‭

comon man these are your scriptures to support what your saying ? This says one group did good works the other didn’t and they were judged by those works eternally lol you’ve quoted something that shows what your saying is erroneous lol

Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. “

(It’s all about what they did let look at the other group )

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: ( why ?)

for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. ( all about what the didn’t do )

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: ( this isn’t a temporary thing on earth it’s eternal )

but the righteous into life eternal.”

The difference in tbe two groups are thier actions do you read all those verses you’re quoting and explaining ? Or just randomly toss them and Hope no one reads them ? Hebrews 14:6 is s a new one never had read that one lol

My apologies, Heb 14:6 should have been 12:6-8. For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receveth, if ye endure chastening, God desleth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? but if ye be without chastisement, whereof all (of the elect) are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The bastards are judged at the last day out of "the books", and another book was opened, which is the book of life (which listed the names of the elect), and the dead (in spirit) were judged out of the (other) books.

“My apologies, Heb 14:6 should have been 12:6-8. For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receveth, if ye endure chastening, God desleth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the Father chasteneth not? but if ye be without chastisement, whereof all (of the elect) are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.”

So Hebrews 12 ?

“Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees; and make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:4-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and this to you is saying that Christian’s will never be judged by thier deeds like the bi le clewrly says repeatedly ?

its just showing us that God is like a good father he is t going to just make excuses and approve of our sin he’s going to correct us and teach us right so we live and can partake of his nature ….it isn’t even talking about eternal jidgement this is

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: ( this isnt about earthly life it’s about judgement day )

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-9‬ ‭

as long as we reject what’s really plain and clear we’re never going to find this place

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we acknolwedge tbat we’re have to repent and straighten up the devil loses a lie he had us conviced of “ when we start to hear the truth it gives us reason to act upon the things we hear and believe like I know one day I have to do this and like Paul I also see the terror in it for all who aren’t prepared

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One day I have to do this

“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God.

So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If I was to believe “ I’ll never be judged I’ll never be held to account for my actions if I sin it’s already forgiven I don’t need to confess or repent I’m already saved nothing else to see here …….

Im just rejecting everything the Lord has taught us and wants us to know and believe and follow after

He wants Christian’s to know that one day we have to give an account t for what we have done in life even every word we’ve spoken

“But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭12:36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord”

in the end what actually is said in the Bible is going to be the truth it’s why repentance after one believes in Jesus first is the first step in salvation

We’re these

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So we have to hear this

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:5‬ ‭

o hope you realize I’m not saying anyone needs to obey Moses or his law it’s Christs words tbat will judge everyone so the first thing we need to actually begin oracticing is this because it regards our judgement disposition

Our judge said this regarding judgement

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭

that wuote from Roman’s two I showed you about judgement is based on that principle from Luke Paul eas teaching that if we judge and condemn everyone for thier sins , we have to face tbat same dispostion at judgement he began on this area

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

one sinner judging another sinner is to condemn tbier own self for thier sins ……

i honestly don’t think most people hear what I’m saying and maybe it’s because I’m not good at saying it right but this is going to be our judgement

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when people learn the things Jesus actually taught about salvstion I don’t think they are going to have as much of an issue with understanding we need to walk in it to be saved

Alot of people think Jesus promotes Moses words and called people back to those were of the gospel that’s all we need and will judge apl
Men according to the words of Jesus Christ in the gospel we can receive it or reject it one leads to life the other to judgement and damnation

everyone has the same choice I can believe Jesus is the lord and act accordingly ot o can refuse it and reject it or make him into someone he isn’t

Yes there is scripture.



John 13:20
Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.”

No,he was right.
John 13:20
Very truly I tell you, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me.”


If you want to call it a good work by believing in Jesus then fine.But it is essential.

If you don't except Jesus then you have rejected God.

Notice how chapter 12 goes together with this principle they began with in ten

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. ( that’s a warning a stark and severe one that should rattle us a bit )

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-31‬ ‭

that’s why God disciplines us and corrects our sinfulness and doesn’t just say “ it doesn’t matter what you do your saved repent or not your saved obey or not your saved “ instead he’s teaching us so we don’t perish so we actually will be saved to repent and obey him he’s leading us the right way trust him ect

so we don’t end up as those who continue willful sin and never repent .

How do you interpret the verse below?

Romans 3:31
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

This is a great post. I like the thinking. And I hear about your thoughts on all Israel throughout the ages. One verse that makes me think otherwise is the following:

Romans 11:28 NLT - "Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

I didn't check other translations before pasting above, but I'm confident the message will be the same. Above, the wording indicates bloodline, an ancestral bloodline pointing to Abraham. And that's the thing, Abraham is a key figure of the Bible, just below Christ in my opinion, for he is our Father of Faith. And why, exactly, is he our Father of Faith? This points to both physical and Spiritual Circumcision. Abraham is the Father of the physically circumcised, the Jews, but he is also the Father of those who are Spiritually Circumcised, the Gentiles. Hence, Abraham is the Father of Faith for all, providing that even the Jews have the same Faith Abraham had before he was physically circumcised. My point? All of Israel, in some way, has got to be tied in with circumcision, and it could be the physical mark acting as something like a promissory note to be used as credit in the future.

It is tough, that is for sure. But I am thankful to find a few level-headed people that can talk about this without raving.

this may be a simple point of grammar. i love grammar.

in Romans 11:26, the word "so" (houtós) is an adverb of manner. it's telling us HOW all Israel will be saved. that's why many translations render it like this:

and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (NIV)

and thus all Israel will be saved; (NASB 1977)

And in this way all Israel will be saved (ESV)

how will Israel be saved?

just as it is written, “THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB.” (NASB)

belief in Christ as Savior is the only way anyone can be saved. God is faithful to save His people in the same manner, every time-- faith in God's promise. what do you think of this interpretation of the text?

Thank you for sharing! What the OP is looking for is how can we explain the difference between only a tiny remnant being saved compared to all of Israel.

Based upon the fact that Christians aren't physically in the world and sharing the Gospel Plan of Christ, I'm going to assume that all Israel will be those whom Christ Purifies, which would be Jew and Gentile alike . . . and that number is VERY VERY VERY small. Just like Israel, when most Jews were not True Jews, today's Christians are not True Christians. Just like the Jews, Christians make up their own Saving plan to follow, a plan that cannot save even a gnat.

.

Thanks for your question. Romans 11 says that a part of the cultural Jews will be saved and a part of the Gentiles will be saved. All those who are saved are called spiritual Israel, both Jews and Gentiles. That is why Romans 11 says "And so all Israel shall be saved ". 'All Israel' here means the part of cultural Jews who believe on Christ and the part of Gentiles who believe on Christ. They are all called Israel. The word 'so' means 'in this manner'. In this manner all Israel will be saved. What manner is that? Just what the chapter just described - that part of the cultural Jews and part of the Gentiles will be saved. That's the manner.

If you want to look further, notice in the chapter that the Deliverer comes from Zion. That happened: Jesus came from heaven. And he turned ungodliness from Jacob. Jacob is a picture of all believers here. It means Jesus came from heaven and turned all true believers to himself. Then the chapter continues that this is his covenant - to take away sins. Well, yes, of course, that's why Jesus the Deliverer came from heaven, to take away sins.