Revelation: A Cyclical View

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,569
661
113
#21
What book/site/video series did you get this from?
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#22
What book/site/video series did you get this from?
Much of it is from my own study, but I recommend “The Faith Once For All” by Jack Cottrell, Revelation: Four Views by Gregg, and JK Beal’s commentary on Revelation.
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#23
What book/site/video series did you get this from?
I would also add that elements of this view of Revelation dates back to the times of Augustine. Much of the futuristic views of Revelation that are popular today (most notably Dispensational Premillenialism) were not formulated until the 18th century and based upon the fever dream of a young girl…

Dave MacPherson traces its crucial component, the secret rapture idea, to a feverish vision by a Scottish teenager named Margaret Macdonald in 1830. This idea was almost immediately integrated into the budding dispensational theology being systematized by the early Plymouth Brethren leader, John Nelson Darby. - Cottrell
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#24
I’m not good with labels what’s the view called when you see the interpretations of revelations vision , written in and all throughout the prophets beforehand ? And watch it unfold in the book of revelations narrative ?
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#25
I’m not good with labels what’s the view called when you see the interpretations of revelations vision , written in and all throughout the prophets beforehand ? And watch it unfold in the book of revelations narrative ?
Well, I think all views see the language in Revelation as pointing back to the messages of the OT prophets. However, if you are saying your view is that the true fulfillment of the OT prophecies are not fully realized until the final days before Christ’s return, then you are likely referring to a “futurist” interpretation of the book.

For instance, the Dispensational Premillennial view interprets the Bible as God’s interaction with humanity in various “dispensations” throughout history. They believe we are currently in the dispensation of grace by which God interacts with the Church (primarily Gentiles) through the preaching of the Gospel. However, they believe that one day, Christ will secretly appear (the rapture) and take away the Church from the world. Then a new dispensation will arise in which God returns his focus to national Israel and the OT prophecies left unfulfilled (so they believe) by Christ’s first coming. The Temple will be rebuilt, sacrifices will commence, and the Antichrist will arise and put the world through a 7 year ”Great Tribulation” (Some argue the rapture occurs before the tribulation while others argue that it happens in the middle or after (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-tribulation rapture)). At this time, the nation of Israel will be attacked, but God will rescue them. Christ will come and set up an earthly throne in Jerusalem and will reign there for 1,000 literal years until Satan is released, fought against and judged. The whole concept of the secret rapture is to get the church out of the way so God can return his attention to national Israel to fulfill unfulfilled promises in the OT.

Does that sound like your view? If so, you’d be classified as someone who sees the book from a futurist Dispensational Premillenial (premillennial means that Christ returns before the 1,000 years) perspective. I hope that helps.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
#26
Well, I think all views see the language in Revelation as pointing back to the messages of the OT prophets. However, if you are saying your view is that the true fulfillment of the OT prophecies are not fully realized until the final days before Christ’s return, then you are likely referring to a “futurist” interpretation of the book.

For instance, the Dispensational Premillennial view interprets the Bible as God’s interaction with humanity in various “dispensations” throughout history. They believe we are currently in the dispensation of grace by which God interacts with the Church (primarily Gentiles) through the preaching of the Gospel. However, they believe that one day, Christ will secretly appear (the rapture) and take away the Church from the world. Then a new dispensation will arise in which God returns his focus to national Israel and the OT prophecies left unfulfilled (so they believe) by Christ’s first coming. The Temple will be rebuilt, sacrifices will commence, and the Antichrist will arise and put the world through a 7 year ”Great Tribulation” (Some argue the rapture occurs before the tribulation while others argue that it happens in the middle or after (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-tribulation rapture). At this time, the nation of Israel will be attacked, but God will rescue them. Christ will come and set up an earthly throne in Jerusalem and will reign there for 1,000 literal years until Satan is released, fought against and judged. The whole concept of the secret rapture is to get the church out of the way so God can return his attention to national Israel to fulfill unfulfilled promises in the OT.

Does that sound like your view? If so, you’d be classified as someone who sees the book from a futurist Dispensational Premillenial (premillennial means that Christ returns before the 1,000 years) perspective. I hope that helps.
if you are saying your view is that the true fulfillment of the OT prophecies are not fully realized until the final days before Christ’s return, then you are likely referring to a “futurist” interpretation of the book.

definitely not my position

what im saying is we can know what revelation is actually saying by reading what the prophets said would happen later when the messiah came .
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,801
631
113
#27
Question. I've never looked into this.. so Satan will be bound/locked up for a 1000y. Ok what about the 1/2 of angles and demons? Or is this just something we are not sure about
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,077
6,883
113
62
#28
Question. I've never looked into this.. so Satan will be bound/locked up for a 1000y. Ok what about the 1/2 of angles and demons? Or is this just something we are not sure about
Only trying to be helpful...it was a third of the angels who fell.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#30
Only trying to be helpful...it was a third of the angels who fell.
The idea of one third of the angels falling from heaven is found in Revelation 12:4:
"His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth."


The "his" refers to a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.
 

Chaps

Active member
Apr 3, 2024
307
114
43
California
#31
Question. I've never looked into this.. so Satan will be bound/locked up for a 1000y. Ok what about the 1/2 of angles and demons? Or is this just something we are not sure about
Right. My view is this “binding of Satan” is a metaphor which refers to his inability to deceive the nations due to the preaching of the Gospel. The text is not saying that Satan and his demonic forces are unable to do anything or are completely inactive in the world, but simply that they are restrained in their ability to deceive the nations as they once were. I think the visual applies to Satan and all his capabilities (demonic forces, etc), not just him personally.

I hope that makes sense.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#32
Revelation 12:7-11 Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and
the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place
found in heaven for him and his angels. 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called
the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10
And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of
our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who
accuses them day and night before our God. 11 They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by
the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,077
6,883
113
62
#33
Revelation 12:7-11 Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and
the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place
found in heaven for him and his angels. 9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called
the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10
And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of
our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who
accuses them day and night before our God. 11 They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by
the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death."
Now the 64K question: when is this referring to?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
113
#36
Ah! I misread that... my apologies. I do not much engage in the when question... if at all.

Except when it is appropriate to say it is at the end of this age.
 

Zandar

Well-known member
May 16, 2023
1,650
653
113
#38
Very interesting discussion. I'm still undecided on wether its cyclical, historic or futurists. I look at it more of a statement of things thats happened and things that will happen. 'I am the Alpha and Omega, beginning and the end.'
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#40
My view is this “binding of Satan” is a metaphor which refers to his inability to deceive the nations due to the preaching of the Gospel
How can an actual fact be a metaphor? And what would that metaphor stand for? And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

It looks like your study of Revelation is more fantasy than reality. And you are not the first one to change reality into fantasy in this case.

Also you keep inserting "preaching of the Gospel" and that is not even in this context or passage. So you are compounding your errors.