Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
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Lets keep to what is revealed in the Holy Bible about Adam.. Peoples imaginations can get the better of them and soon wild imaginations can end up as traditions of men being added to scripture which end up twisting scripture and muddying the waters..
No it does not say that::
(Philippians 2:7) "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
Form and likeness does not mean He became 100% exactly like us.. He became like us.. He did not become us..
Nope i totally reject this teaching.. Adam would never have become God and shall never become God.. There is only one God and Jesus is God made manafest in the flesh.. The teaching that men can become Gods is from satan and he used that lie in the garden of eden to entice Eve to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..
No it does not say that::
(Philippians 2:7) "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
Form and likeness does not mean He became 100% exactly like us.. He became like us.. He did not become us..
Nope i totally reject this teaching.. Adam would never have become God and shall never become God.. There is only one God and Jesus is God made manafest in the flesh.. The teaching that men can become Gods is from satan and he used that lie in the garden of eden to entice Eve to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..
No, Adam would not have become God. However, God intended Adam to be like God. Have you forgotten that Jesus has always existed and that Adam was made in God's image? Do you not recall the promise that we shall be like Him? I will never be God, but I will be like Him. That's good enough for me.
I am a partaker of the divine nature. I have the Spirit of Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit. I am a new creation in Christ. The only thing I lack is a new body. I can wait.
I am a partaker of the divine nature. I have the Spirit of Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit. I am a new creation in Christ. The only thing I lack is a new body. I can wait.
If it is given that grace is but faith is not, then I'd hypothesize that the sure advantage Jesus had that Adam did not was faith, although I'm not sure whether I would arrive at either rejecting or failing to reject that hypothesis until I can establish the antecedent in this hypothetical syllogism.
I think it is obvious that Adam exhibited some sort of doubt at least, even if he was not deceived so the question becomes what did Adam doubt that he would stray from God's will and exercise his own? And even though Jesus proved to be forever faithful, did Jesus ever encounter the risk in the opportunity to give way to doubt?
I think it is obvious that Adam exhibited some sort of doubt at least, even if he was not deceived so the question becomes what did Adam doubt that he would stray from God's will and exercise his own? And even though Jesus proved to be forever faithful, did Jesus ever encounter the risk in the opportunity to give way to doubt?
Concerning the proposed hypothesis that Adam, as a foreshadow of Christ, "gave his life for his wife" as Jesus did, Adam's 'gift' resulted in death passing on to all mankind where Jesus' results in life. So, what is the difference? What if, even though the woman had fallen, what if Adam had remained obedient, even as Jesus did to secured life for his bride? Was her sin unto death? Since death only came when Adam ate. Script does speak of a sin not unto death after all. Might've she have been healed of it through his obedience?
There's no need to rehash the regular arguments, I'm just brainstorm. Eventually, the torrent will peter out and I'll be still.
There's no need to rehash the regular arguments, I'm just brainstorm. Eventually, the torrent will peter out and I'll be still.
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What do you mean? In not sinning? I don't think it's in Jesus' nature to sin... God is holy... I guess by definition that means he wouldn't sin, I'm not sure if Jesus is, but I don't know if he ever would... when you say advantage, I guess I might sort of see it from that perspective if it crosses my mind, but maybe there is no advantage and Jesus just is not like that in that he doesn't want to sin.
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Re: Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
1) Jesus was not only born with human genetics, but also born with God's.
The latter's genetics gave him a huge advantage over not only Adam, but
also everybody else too.
"As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the son to have life in
himself." (John 5:26)
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1John 3:9)
2) Jesus was, and still is, not merely filled with God's spirit, but better yet;
he's overwhelmed with the Spirit.
"God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit." (John 3:34)
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Re: Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
1) Jesus was not only born with human genetics, but also born with God's.
The latter's genetics gave him a huge advantage over not only Adam, but
also everybody else too.
"As the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the son to have life in
himself." (John 5:26)
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him;
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1John 3:9)
2) Jesus was, and still is, not merely filled with God's spirit, but better yet;
he's overwhelmed with the Spirit.
"God's spirit is upon him without measure or limit." (John 3:34)
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Why then is Jesus called the "Last Adam" and the "Second Man"? Adam was not created the opposite of Christ. God gave Adam dominion of over all of God's natural world. Jesus came to recover all that Adam gave away. The primary difference is that Adam was a natural being and Lord Jesus was the Life giving Spirit.
Adam was created in God's image. God's intention for Adam never changed and His will shall be done. The fall is just a blip on the radar of eternity. The precious blood of Jesus removes sin as if it never happened. When God forgives, he forgets. Those who choose Christ now will know the joy of eternal life without a history of sin. Those who reject Christ now will have an eternity of regret.
Adam was created in God's image. God's intention for Adam never changed and His will shall be done. The fall is just a blip on the radar of eternity. The precious blood of Jesus removes sin as if it never happened. When God forgives, he forgets. Those who choose Christ now will know the joy of eternal life without a history of sin. Those who reject Christ now will have an eternity of regret.
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When the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, he came
not as a divine man, rather, as a Jewish man whose human origin can be easily
traced all the way back to David, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, and Adam.
NOTE: I'm talking about tracing the Word's human origin without referencing Jesus' two
official genealogies located in Matthew and Luke.
Also:
Jesus today is occupied with the responsibilities of a high priest. Those kinds of priests--
e.g. Melchizedek & Aaron --are always selected from among humans because a deity
may be able to pity humans; but a deity cannot sympathize with people on a human's
level seeing, as a rule, divine beings have no personal experience at living as a being
with limitations instead of a supernatural being with zero limitations.
So then:
We see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels." (Heb 2:9)
"God sent His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh." (Rom 8:3)
"Here am I, and the children God has given me. . . Since the children have flesh and
blood, he too shared in their humanity. . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but
Abraham's descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every
way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God."
(Heb 2:13-17)
"This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same
trials we do." (Heb 4:15)
_
When the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as the flesh of John 1:14, he came
not as a divine man, rather, as a Jewish man whose human origin can be easily
traced all the way back to David, Judah, Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, and Adam.
NOTE: I'm talking about tracing the Word's human origin without referencing Jesus' two
official genealogies located in Matthew and Luke.
Also:
Jesus today is occupied with the responsibilities of a high priest. Those kinds of priests--
e.g. Melchizedek & Aaron --are always selected from among humans because a deity
may be able to pity humans; but a deity cannot sympathize with people on a human's
level seeing, as a rule, divine beings have no personal experience at living as a being
with limitations instead of a supernatural being with zero limitations.
So then:
We see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels." (Heb 2:9)
"God sent His own son in the likeness of sinful flesh." (Rom 8:3)
"Here am I, and the children God has given me. . . Since the children have flesh and
blood, he too shared in their humanity. . . For surely it is not angels he helps, but
Abraham's descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every
way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God."
(Heb 2:13-17)
"This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same
trials we do." (Heb 4:15)
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To distinguish the difference between him and Adam.
Became the opposite, not created that way.
They are opposites with Adam resembling satan and his fall.
In what way does Adam represent Christ? He willingly chose to sin which caused the fall of humanity itself which affects every single human being ever born or will be born, causing the Earth to be cursed, and failed to protect his wife from a tempter, was the first to die a spiritual death which unless forgiven will send him to the lake of fire, and was cast out of paradise and cursed for the rest of his life.
Became the opposite, not created that way.
They are opposites with Adam resembling satan and his fall.
In what way does Adam represent Christ? He willingly chose to sin which caused the fall of humanity itself which affects every single human being ever born or will be born, causing the Earth to be cursed, and failed to protect his wife from a tempter, was the first to die a spiritual death which unless forgiven will send him to the lake of fire, and was cast out of paradise and cursed for the rest of his life.
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Both men are progenitors of a human race. Adam is the rootstock of a
people designed to live in a man's world, whereas Jesus is the rootstock of a
people designed to live in God's world, ergo: "in Adam" is the first race
whereas "in Christ" is the second. Adam's race consists of normal people,
whereas Christ's consists of folks taken from Adam's and upgraded with
some remarkable improvements.
● 2Cor 5:17 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
* People had no say, neither role, relative to getting themselves in Adam,
whereas getting one's self in Christ requires taking the initiative to make a
proactive decision, viz: people were stuck in Adam without first consulting
their feelings about it, whereas people are allowed a choice whether to
get themselves stuck in Christ.
CAUTION: The option to unite with Christ, once taken, cannot be reversed
with any more ease than recalling the toot of a horn or a vesper chime; so I
highly recommend that folks be very sure about what they're locking
themselves into before taking the plunge.
_
Both men are progenitors of a human race. Adam is the rootstock of a
people designed to live in a man's world, whereas Jesus is the rootstock of a
people designed to live in God's world, ergo: "in Adam" is the first race
whereas "in Christ" is the second. Adam's race consists of normal people,
whereas Christ's consists of folks taken from Adam's and upgraded with
some remarkable improvements.
● 2Cor 5:17 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
* People had no say, neither role, relative to getting themselves in Adam,
whereas getting one's self in Christ requires taking the initiative to make a
proactive decision, viz: people were stuck in Adam without first consulting
their feelings about it, whereas people are allowed a choice whether to
get themselves stuck in Christ.
CAUTION: The option to unite with Christ, once taken, cannot be reversed
with any more ease than recalling the toot of a horn or a vesper chime; so I
highly recommend that folks be very sure about what they're locking
themselves into before taking the plunge.
_
Jesus was a HUMAN MAN - the incarnation of the WORD, who was God, and since He was TEMPTED in all respects AS WE ARE, and since temptation STARTS in the individual (James 1:14) with their own strong personal desires (Lusts), he had to deal with the same process that we do. Jesus stated that he didn't do anything OF HIMSELF, but with God's power working through him. What we do know is that TEMPTATION is not "SIN" - UNTIL we allow it to "Conceive", and result in sinful actions.
Obviously, then, Jesus did not allow HIS LUST to "Conceive". How did he do that??? In our case, often we "Go with it", and allow it to become sinful actions. So Jesus, even though he was HUMAN like us, apparently had "something under the hood" that we don't. and He RESISTED the temptation - BEFORE He was joined by the Holy Spirit at His baptism and was able to remain sinless for 30 years.
Harold Ockengae used to say that: "you can't keep the birds from flying overhead, but you CAN keep them from building a nest in your hair." In many cases we don't (we even give 'em the materials to build with), but Jesus was able to resist, so obviously He DID have some advantage, over the rest of us. When He was 12, we was debating theology with the rabbis in the temple -
Obviously, then, Jesus did not allow HIS LUST to "Conceive". How did he do that??? In our case, often we "Go with it", and allow it to become sinful actions. So Jesus, even though he was HUMAN like us, apparently had "something under the hood" that we don't. and He RESISTED the temptation - BEFORE He was joined by the Holy Spirit at His baptism and was able to remain sinless for 30 years.
Harold Ockengae used to say that: "you can't keep the birds from flying overhead, but you CAN keep them from building a nest in your hair." In many cases we don't (we even give 'em the materials to build with), but Jesus was able to resist, so obviously He DID have some advantage, over the rest of us. When He was 12, we was debating theology with the rabbis in the temple -
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I'm not comparing Christ to us, we start off behind the eight ball because of Adam's sin. I'm comparing Adam's pre-fall life to Christ's earthly life.
Although, I think you don't believe original sin had any affect upon the rest of us so in that case Jesus did have an advantage as He did have something under the hood that we don't ie. no inherent sin nature.
Although, I think you don't believe original sin had any affect upon the rest of us so in that case Jesus did have an advantage as He did have something under the hood that we don't ie. no inherent sin nature.