The "others" crucified with Christ
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technically by faith anyone that gets baptized into his name for remission of sins is crucified with him
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11 KJV
Literally The Bible says there was a criminal on either side so Jesus and two criminals or “malefactors “
but by faith anyone who believes Jesus does for thier sins and rose and gets baptized for remission of sins that’s what it’s about being crucified with Christ for our sins and being raised with him for his righteousness.
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 6:3-7, 11 KJV
Literally The Bible says there was a criminal on either side so Jesus and two criminals or “malefactors “
but by faith anyone who believes Jesus does for thier sins and rose and gets baptized for remission of sins that’s what it’s about being crucified with Christ for our sins and being raised with him for his righteousness.
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The OP Question:
How many were crucified with Christ?
______ 2 or
______ 4
Thoughts...?...
Assuming you are referring to the text of John 19:18... consider:
Berean Literal Bible
where they crucified Him and with Him two others on this side and on that side and Jesus in between.
Young's Literal Translation
where they crucified him and with him two others on this side and on that side and Jesus in the midst.
-- https://biblehub.com/text/john/19-18.htm
A few thoughts:
--I believe these two versions above reflect the actual Greek text best;
--there is no word "one" in this text;
--if there were 2 on either side (with which I am inclined to agree), this would explain the two verses further down in the text (the bolded portion), verses 32-33, where it says,
"32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs" - https://biblehub.com/text/john/19-33.htm
["But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus"... sounds as though they were going in order, in a row, and when they came to Jesus [as third in a series of five persons total], instead of going on one side first, then circling past Jesus to go to the other side next, and then Jesus in the middle being last... which doesn't really seem to fit the text as well, where it says "But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus"--why would it be phrased this way, or why would it be necessary for these words to be describing something which had them circling past Jesus [skipping over Him] to go secondly to the supposed one man clear on the other side of Him, and then back... it doesn't seem one would word it this way. That's how I'm seeing it.]
How many were crucified with Christ?
______ 2 or
______ 4
Thoughts...?...
Assuming you are referring to the text of John 19:18... consider:
Berean Literal Bible
where they crucified Him and with Him two others on this side and on that side and Jesus in between.
Young's Literal Translation
where they crucified him and with him two others on this side and on that side and Jesus in the midst.
-- https://biblehub.com/text/john/19-18.htm
A few thoughts:
--I believe these two versions above reflect the actual Greek text best;
--there is no word "one" in this text;
--if there were 2 on either side (with which I am inclined to agree), this would explain the two verses further down in the text (the bolded portion), verses 32-33, where it says,
"32 Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. 33 But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs" - https://biblehub.com/text/john/19-33.htm
["But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus"... sounds as though they were going in order, in a row, and when they came to Jesus [as third in a series of five persons total], instead of going on one side first, then circling past Jesus to go to the other side next, and then Jesus in the middle being last... which doesn't really seem to fit the text as well, where it says "But when they came to [epi G1909] Jesus"--why would it be phrased this way, or why would it be necessary for these words to be describing something which had them circling past Jesus [skipping over Him] to go secondly to the supposed one man clear on the other side of Him, and then back... it doesn't seem one would word it this way. That's how I'm seeing it.]
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The Gospel of Luke
23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
He confessed his sins,And put his trust in Jesus Christ.He is lucky,He is also a good example of understanding Jesus' teachings.
Romans
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
He confessed his sins,And put his trust in Jesus Christ.He is lucky,He is also a good example of understanding Jesus' teachings.
Romans
10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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If you look at the other accounts of the gospel it clears it up
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Luke 23:32-33 KJV
“And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.”
Mark 15:27-28
“Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
Matthew 27:38
whenever you see repetetive accounts repeating you have a witness
“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
2 Corinthians 13:1
Luke
“they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Mark
with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
matthew
Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
John
“where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”
John 19:18 KJV
It creates a vivid image doesnt it
“And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Luke 23:32-33 KJV
“And with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left. And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.”
Mark 15:27-28
“Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
Matthew 27:38
whenever you see repetetive accounts repeating you have a witness
“This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
2 Corinthians 13:1
Luke
“they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.”
Mark
with him they crucify two thieves; the one on his right hand, and the other on his left.
matthew
Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.”
John
“where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.”
John 19:18 KJV
It creates a vivid image doesnt it
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In the Biblical story..... I believe there is a Biblical story, but the one we are being taught is full of errors. And it seems that people are good with that story for some reason. If the Bible is TRUTH, then there cannot be errors in the story. And in this story there seems to be a couple of big contradictions regarding the others crucified with Jesus.
#1) Two were led out with him and were crucified one on either side, luke 23:32, And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. 33) And WHEN they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, on on the right hand, and the other on the left." IOWs these 3 were all crucified at the same time.
But in Matthew 27 it says after they crucified him (v.35) they parted his garments, (36) they sat down and watched him, (37) they set up his accusation over his head, and "THEN (v38) were two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left."
The question then becomes, if the others crucified with Jesus WERE THE SAME, if the thieves was just another name for the malefactors, WHEN WERE THEY CRUCIFIED? Were they led out with Jesus, or did they come out later after they put the accusation over Jesus?
#2) BOTH the THIEVES reviled Jesus, and they did this AFTER the accusation was put over Jesus' head [Matt.27:37,44, "The thieves also, which were crujcified with him, cast the same in his teeth."]. But only ONE of the MALEFACTORS reviled Jesus. [Luke 23:38-43]
HOW can the thieves and the malefactors be the same?
The Bible says God cannot lie [Titus 1:2], and God cannot contradict himself [James 3:17]. The Bible also tells us to "search the scriptures" [John 5:39] so that we may know if something is true or not [Acts 17:11].
How do you resolve these apparent contradictions? ... or maybe it just doesn't matter?
#1) Two were led out with him and were crucified one on either side, luke 23:32, And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death. 33) And WHEN they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, on on the right hand, and the other on the left." IOWs these 3 were all crucified at the same time.
But in Matthew 27 it says after they crucified him (v.35) they parted his garments, (36) they sat down and watched him, (37) they set up his accusation over his head, and "THEN (v38) were two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left."
The question then becomes, if the others crucified with Jesus WERE THE SAME, if the thieves was just another name for the malefactors, WHEN WERE THEY CRUCIFIED? Were they led out with Jesus, or did they come out later after they put the accusation over Jesus?
#2) BOTH the THIEVES reviled Jesus, and they did this AFTER the accusation was put over Jesus' head [Matt.27:37,44, "The thieves also, which were crujcified with him, cast the same in his teeth."]. But only ONE of the MALEFACTORS reviled Jesus. [Luke 23:38-43]
HOW can the thieves and the malefactors be the same?
The Bible says God cannot lie [Titus 1:2], and God cannot contradict himself [James 3:17]. The Bible also tells us to "search the scriptures" [John 5:39] so that we may know if something is true or not [Acts 17:11].
How do you resolve these apparent contradictions? ... or maybe it just doesn't matter?
I was working on a post to bring up some similar points... glad to see you already put something along these same lines.
The only part I'm UNSURE of is the part I bolded ^ (as to "when" the two THIEVES reviled Him... b/c later down in the text--closer to v.44 where they "cast the same in his teeth"--Jesus "cried with a loud voice" yet).
If what you had worded said this instead...
... I can completely agree with this ^
(I am just unsure of the timing of the part you'd put, re: Matt27:37,35a... only because down further in vv.44 and 46,50 shows when Jesus died in relation to when they / "the thieves, also, which were crucified with him" "cast the same in his teeth" [re: the reviling and the mocking" vv.39-44])
____________
As for @Pilgrimshope 's Post #13, I can see the picture in my mind just so:
--one thief on either side of Him [totaling 2];
--one malefactor on either side of Him [totaling 2 others];
--this is why John 19:18 can say, "where they crucified Him and with Him TWO others on this side and on that side and Jesus in between";
--this is why TWO thieves can revile Him, whereas only ONE malefactor does (because there were 4 persons, not only two, total... besides Jesus)--instead of one of them changing his mind [we are NEVER TOLD OF, btw] somewhere in the midst of all of this sequence of events.
That's how I'm seeing it, anyway.
The only part I'm UNSURE of is the part I bolded ^ (as to "when" the two THIEVES reviled Him... b/c later down in the text--closer to v.44 where they "cast the same in his teeth"--Jesus "cried with a loud voice" yet).
If what you had worded said this instead...
... I can completely agree with this ^
(I am just unsure of the timing of the part you'd put, re: Matt27:37,35a... only because down further in vv.44 and 46,50 shows when Jesus died in relation to when they / "the thieves, also, which were crucified with him" "cast the same in his teeth" [re: the reviling and the mocking" vv.39-44])
____________
As for @Pilgrimshope 's Post #13, I can see the picture in my mind just so:
--one thief on either side of Him [totaling 2];
--one malefactor on either side of Him [totaling 2 others];
--this is why John 19:18 can say, "where they crucified Him and with Him TWO others on this side and on that side and Jesus in between";
--this is why TWO thieves can revile Him, whereas only ONE malefactor does (because there were 4 persons, not only two, total... besides Jesus)--instead of one of them changing his mind [we are NEVER TOLD OF, btw] somewhere in the midst of all of this sequence of events.
That's how I'm seeing it, anyway.
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It's a question because 2 reviled Jesus in one text, and only 1 reviled Jesus in another text.
...that's like you and me arguing over the score of the most recent ball game. We both agree on who won, but we disagree on the score. It would make one wonder if we had seen the same game. You might be talking about Wednesday's game while I might be talking about Tuesday's game. And then we have a good laugh after realizing all that.
But after further discussion we finally get the story correct.
Plus, 2 were led out at the same time with him, and then in another text 2 were crucified LATER, after Jesus' accusation was put up over his head.
HOW can they be led out with him, and then be led out again later...unless...they were 2 different sets of 2; one set of 2 being malefactors, and the other set of 2 being thieves.?
...that's like you and me arguing over the score of the most recent ball game. We both agree on who won, but we disagree on the score. It would make one wonder if we had seen the same game. You might be talking about Wednesday's game while I might be talking about Tuesday's game. And then we have a good laugh after realizing all that.
But after further discussion we finally get the story correct. Plus, 2 were led out at the same time with him, and then in another text 2 were crucified LATER, after Jesus' accusation was put up over his head.
HOW can they be led out with him, and then be led out again later...unless...they were 2 different sets of 2; one set of 2 being malefactors, and the other set of 2 being thieves.?