Day of the Lord and the Thief.

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If you dont like the word christians being the restrainer than use church.

Many many pieces but the antichrist was to prevail as written. I see the rapture/resurrection at the reaping of the earth in Rev 14 on Daniels 1335th day of the Tribulation.

I missed you saying it was not the HS. Then who do you say it is?

Whether you use "Christians" or "church," it's the same thing. Christians or church are still not the restrainer. Why would the church be able to restrain the antichrist before his revealing, but not be able to restrain him after that?


Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

This describes the entire last 3-1/2 years. That's literally the entire great tribulation that the Christians will still be here before being raptured.

Moreover, in an earlier chapter, it also says the Lord's people will be trampled underfoot when all this stuff happens.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings [1, 150 days]; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”


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Theologians like Augustine and others were Amillenial. Thus they believed the “Church age” to be represented by the 1000 years. The millenium is characterized by a period where Satan is ”bound” and ends when Satan is “released” and ultimately judged. In my opinion, Satan is bound by the preaching of the Gospel. Jesus spoke of the “binding of the strong man” when he speaks of his power to release captives by the preaching of the good news. Anyone who hears the Gospel can be freed from the captivity of the enemy and Satan is powerless to keep those individuals in darkness and sin.

The millenium is merely characterized by one statement: “That he might not deceive the nations any longer.” Unlike the OT where most of the Gentile world was captive to paganism and had no knowledge of the God of Israel, now the Gospel is spread throughout the world and anyone who wants to be free can be by the preaching of the Gospel. Those who portray the millenium as a period of a one world government, Great Tribulation, a rebuilt Temple, etc is simply not found in Revelation 20 that speaks of this period.

So, you’ll have to explain to me how the Bible says something else because the only text in all of Scripture that teaches on the millenium does not say anything about the types of things that most believers like to claim will happen during this period.

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Your mistake is when you didn't start at the beginning of the Tribulation and count the days

The Bible says to start counting from when the daily sacrifice is abolished and the AOD is set up, NOT from the beginning of the 7 year tribulation.

Here it is again:

Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.


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I heard what you are saying that the sacrifice you see removed are what the priest do on a daily basis in the temple.

First problem there are more days than available in the second half by 75 days

My suggestion is from scripture: Hebrew 10 3 But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sin year after year. 4 For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins.

Hebrew 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself.

So, what I am saying when the covenant with many are made, Israel and the nations again reject Jesus and accept the offer of the one we call the antichrist therefore abolishing the Lord's sacrifice.

The world will be in turmoil even before the Tribulation begins. And this man who makes this covenant with Israel will allow them to built the temple and he will protect them and allow jews from all over the world to return home. The scriptures say nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom and much or this fulfillment during the protection in first 3 1/2 years. . All of this is shortly coming to pass.

But because Israel has again rejected Yeshua and chose another during a troubled world---henceforth the Tribulation

yeah the tribe of Dan was removed because of wickedness. He was like Judas

“Dan shall be a serpent by the way, An adder in the path, That biteth the horse heels, So that his rider shall fall backward.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭49:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Just like Judas was foretold to be a traitor and was foretold to be removed

“Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:34-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It seems like Jesus was focused on the generation he was in when he was teaching about the tribulation about to come upon them he insists it would be fulfilled in thier generation and well about twenty or thirty years later Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman Empire and destroyed along with its temple like Jesus was talking about in those chapters and sections of scripture

It seems like all the Old Testament judgements he made against Jerusalem were being fulfilled and the great tribulation foretold upon them was about to happen and Jesus was preparing his disciples for it because he was about to go back to heaven

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All of the apostles, except Judas, were from Galilee. His name, Judas Iscariot, indicates that he was “Judas from Kerioth.” Iscariot is not a word in any known language. It is believed to be a corruption of the Hebrew word Ish Kerioth (man of Kerioth).

Kerioth was a small village on the southwestern extremity of the territory of Judea (Joshua 15:25), about 15 miles south of Hebron.

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Your belief in Preterism leads me to believe you think the Lord is done with Israel??

I wonder about the extra days too. Right now though, it's best to obey what it says:

Daniel 12:11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

So it says to wait for and reach the end of the 1,335 days. That's what we should do. I'm pretty sure God will make it a lot more clear why as that time approaches. But whether He explains it or not, it's just best to obey and wait.



You keep thinking that Jews should do the same things as Christians now, and of course those sacrifices that the Jews make will be useless, but since they don't realize that Jesus is their Messiah yet, they're going to make those sacrifices and will do them daily according to their practice. Once they do realize Jesus is their Messiah, then they will follow and obey Jesus and do things according to His will. They will stop doing animal sacrifices then.


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and what is the significance of this ?

all I’m saying is Dan was foretold of the twelve tribes to be a serpent and his bite would turn back

of the twelve apostles Judas was foretold to be a traitor and betrayer of the lord

In both cases he replaced the tribe of Dan according to the old covenant

and he replaced Judas as well .

the information you offer here seems useful In a conversation but I honestly am not understanding where it fits ? Could you elaborate on what you’re saying ? Seems o retesting to me but I’m not really following

Judas wasnt from the tribe Dan so Im not following you

I have read through the first page, you have good intentions my friend, but on the whole you are just not quite getting to the facts in full, in the end.

Gary A is correct, the DOTL is THE DAY God's Wrath starts on or the full 1000 year reign, plus the 3.5 years before that in which God starts the process of taking back the title deed to the earth from Satan.

As per unto the thief in the night phrase and that being a likeminded representation of the groom taking the bride by surprise, I agree, but I think you still get the timing wrong, I may be in error on your thinking, but I do not think you are Pre 70th week (or Pre Trib.) on the Rapture, but like I stated, I may be wrong in that assumption. Anyways, where most people error on this is they do nit understand that once you miss that wedding call, your fate is sealed !! The DOTL is coming on you unless you just so happen tom die a natural death, anyone left on earth at this time will see "God's Wrath" so the term coming like a thief in the night can only fit a Pre 70th week Rapture. Once the 70th week starts we know the DOTL comes exactly 1260 days later, or in the middle of the week. We also know that Jesus returns on day 2520, or 1260 days after God's Wrath starts, so the thief in the n ight moniker only fits a pre trib (pre 70th week really) rapture. As per the passage that uses the thief reference in Rev. 16, that is God, who wrote Revelation Himself, saying I told you so but you would not listen. People looking at all the Trumpet Judgments play out in order, then the 1st woe, 2nd woe and 3rd woe, which contains the 7 Vials, and on the 6th Vial, after all these plagues have been brought, just before Jesus shows up at Armageddon, God tells them he comes like a thief, but many in the world expected Jesus to show up, only those deceived by the three demon frogs are surprised, else they wouldn't have crept out of their hiding places in caves etc. etc.

As per 2 Thess. 2 that is not a Rebellion, the first 7 English translations had DEPARTURE, not Falling Away, the KJV & Church of England did that, to take a swipe at the RCC, "their foes". The DOTL or God's Wrath can not happen until the DEPARTURE (of the church, or as vs. 1 says the Gathering unto Christ) AND the Man of Sin comes on the scene, well the DOTL is the Rev. 8 Asteroid Impact, so that hits and the Man of Sin has already made his 7 year agreement with Israel by that time, which is simply Israel joining the E.U. So, hes on the scene AND the Church has already departed, so Paul is telling the early church here, HEY stop fearing, you can not ever be in the DOTL (God's Wrath).

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Then what do you say when Peter spoke in Acts 2 saying great and glorious day of the Lord?

Acts 2:20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and glorious day of the Lord comes.

And you are right Im not a preterist or pre-trib

He's quoting Malachi 4:5-6 basically and/or Joel 2:31. But go reread Malachi 4:5-6 and to a word study on before, it actually derives from a word meaning "FACE" so if you are before a king you are in the presence of the kings [face] so to speak. Anyway, it means in the presence of, so Elijah and Moses imho, or the coming two-witnesses, will come in the presence of the DOTL or God's Wrath. Of course they will, they pray down all of the plagues !!

Glad you are not a preterist, but I never asked the question, both Pre 70th week and Pre Trib. mean the same thing, I just use pre 70th week because some people can't differentiate the full week (70th week) from the Greatest Ever Troubles which only last 1260 days. Lets see if I can bring up this meaning.

Malachi 4:5 ¶ Behold, x2009 I x595 will send 7971 z8802 you x853 ´Ëliyyà אֵלִיָּה 452 the prophet 5030 before 6440 the coming 935 z8800 of the great 1419 and dreadful 3372 z8737 day 3117 of Yähwè יָהוֶה: 3068


#6440 פָּנִים paniym {paw-neem'} pl. (but always as sing.) of an unused noun פָּנֶה paneh {paw-neh'}

from H6437; TWOT - 1782a; n m
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) face
1a) face, faces
1b) presence, person
1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
1d) face (of animals)
1e) face, surface (of ground)
1f) as adv of loc/temp
1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly,
from beforetime, before
1g) with prep
1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of,
in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of,
from before, from before the face of
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)

Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (פָּנֶה paneh, {paw-neh'}; from H6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.):— + accept, a (be-) fore (-time), against, anger, X as (long as), at, + battle, + because (of), + beseech, countenance, edge, + employ, endure, + enquire, face, favour, fear of, for, forefront (-part), form (-er time, -ward), from, front, heaviness, X him (-self), + honourable, + impudent, + in, it, look [-eth] (-s), X me, + meet, X more than, mouth, of, off, (of) old (time), X on, open, + out of, over against, the partial, person, + please, presence, prospect, was purposed, by reason, of, + regard, right forth, + serve, X shewbread, sight, state, straight, + street, X thee, X them (-selves), through (+ -out), till, time (-s) past, (un-) to (-ward), + upon, upside (+ down), with (-in, + stand), X ye, X you

—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)

As you see, everything can not be chanced, we have to know ourselves what it means, we have computers, fortunately for us this is easy to do.

So, in the FACE (Presence of) the Day of the Lord is what it means, not BEFORE the DOTL even arrives, but Elijah is sent back in the presence of or to pray down the DOTL ant to witness for 1260 days during the DOTL.

Do not assume a word means in English what you think it means.

So, in the context you used it means the Sun and Moon will be turned dark in the presence of God's Wrath (DOTL)

Ooh I love that old Jewish wedding. They would have understood what Christ was saying when He said I go back to my Fathers house to make you a home and will come back and get you. Just like that wedding, he goes back to his fathers house makes them a home and.. the rest as you said. YES! Praise GOD GLORY GLORY GLORY TO JESUS! only time I cap.

5 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

So, my question to everyone is when does the peace and security end? and to who? and how is the timing of the Day of the Lord tied into the question?