Predestination is misunderstood...

Yes Jesus is the mediator, my posts have not denied this, the issue here is whether people are able to believe.

Faith comes by hearing—hearing the Word of God.
The words contain the evidence by which one can reason, judge, and choose what one will do with his/her life.

Men do not come to God through reason...the world by wisdom knows not God...1 Corinthians 1:21.

Please do not diminish my well researched and thought out position. I will respond to the rest later I have a mountain of work to do and I need to find the words to make you understand, lol!!

You’re wrong in that too… you need the Lord to tell you how to love your children.

What do you mean by, “having the truth in them?” Did they tell the truth? Yes, they did. This does not prove anything.

The answer is they still had the truth in them in, there fallen state which was deserving of God's love.

Are any of you willing to accept satan is no longer deserving of Gods love because the truth is no longer in him.

Please do not diminish my well researched and thought out position.

Speaking the truth does not make anyone “deserving” of God’s love, grace, or mercy. Doing wrong made them, and us, undeserving and no amount of doing right changes that.



Your reasoning is flawed here.

I find it quite odd that so many are offended by the idea that they were not deserving of the love God lavishes on His Own..

No one said we "were" deserving.

What was said? Was that when grace and truth does its work in transforming a believer?
That the transformation that takes place is deserving of His love.

Now, God being omniscient? He knew while we were yet undeserving how He would transform us into being deserving.

Here is how we become deserving of His love in our experience if we mature in Christ....


Without being taught sound doctrine on a steady basis one can not experience what Paul was speaking about.
Paul did teach sound doctrine on a steady basis.
So 2 Cor 3:18 can only apply to those who have found a good pastor teacher. Many today have pastors who can
not teach sound doctrine on a regular basis.

2 Timothy 4:3

For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them
a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.


The more we become transformed into His image by the transformation of our thinking?
By means of sound doctrinal teaching?
The more we are made able (by grace) to experience the Love of God in our walk.

Keep in mind. Its not what God initially saved.
Its what we who are being transformed into after salvation that deserves His love!

In contrast..

Those who walk outside of grace?
Those who keep failing to transform into His image?
These ones can not know they have become what is deserving of God's love.
Usually, such as these resort to religion as a means to keep working for God's love....

Religion has infiltrated the Church for that reason, and has split it up into many denominations.


in Christ ............

No one said we "were" deserving.

Despite being shown That God did not know what man would do next before the fall for many good reason and scripture showing that so, and despite being shown that There is no proof to say it was Satan in the garden, your still determined to prove other wise, even tho you have been clearly shown your understanding is not full proof.

Your still using the omniscient argument.

There is a clear difference to what was omniscient to God after the fall, as to that what was omniscient to God before the fall.

A number have balked at the very idea as if they merited His love, and speak as if they too are capable
of unconditional love, when clearly, they are not. One went so far as to say "God may have helped some
along", perhaps thinking they somehow managed to surrender their self-will to God's, all on their own,
with no help from Him at all. And you yourself have chided, scolded, and mocked me for not saying
I deserve His love, as if I need you as a teacher in this matter. I do not. We are not like Him, yet.

A number have balked at the very idea as if they merited His love, and speak as if they too are capable
of unconditional love, when clearly, they are not. One went so far as to say "God may have helped some
along", perhaps thinking they somehow managed to surrender their self-will to God's, all on their own,
with no help from Him at all. And you yourself have chided, scolded, and mocked me for not saying
I deserve His love, as if I need you as a teacher in this matter. I do not. We are not like Him, yet.

"Were" is past tense...
Its not present tense.

No one said we "were" deserving.

Before He saved?
The way you were was not deserving.......

grace and peace ..............

Do you act as if we still have not put on His righteousness?
You will keep feeling unworthy otherwise.

If we put on His righteousness?
Have we not become worthy and deserving of God's love?
Or, His approval?
God can love you without approving of you, if you are failing to walk in grace and truth.

Here is what you said, and it was echoed by another who spat insults and false accusations at me repeatedly:


Jesus is worthy. I put on His righteousness. I have said that a number of times. Does that make me deserving? You seem to think it does you. I am well aware of God's unconditional love. I have mentioned it a number of times, and the fact that people think they can do likewise when obviously they cannot has also been mentioned. You do not either, nor do you extend grace to others, as evidenced in your last post to me, again telling lies about what I have said, claiming I have said something a number of times that I have never said once.

You keep telling me that the new creation in Christ is undeserving.....

What you keep claiming is a lie against God's workmanship in salvation.

In Christ .............

Your heart is set of disagreement,

But not only this your heart is set on getting in your cheap remarks where you can

Your prepared to support all the disrespectful behaviour being shown here in favor of what ever your own bias is..

I can only assume your bias is your a hardened Calvinist..

It's seems that hardened Calvinists are prepared to insult every Christian belief for favor of there own.

To me you seem no different.

I never knew calvinism was like this until just this last week.

But I have to say that after witnessing the way in which Calvinists defend there doctrine, to me is what I would call the most disrespectful attitude I have ever seen and witnessed here towards God.

The amount of scriptures that have been rejected here for favor of one man, 500 years ago is outstanding.

Dozens of clear understandings of God's character as long with dozens of clear understandings of scripture all lining up, are being rejected.


One scripture after the next and all scripture all saying the same thing, also rejected

Even scripture where God has warned people first rejected,

Even scripture where God has chosen people then rejected them, also rejected

Scripture proving what God loves and what he doesn't love rejected .

All in favor of free will

And God's love being unmerited.

Or Gods love only being for the elect

Or God love only being for the most deserving

Or in favor of dead people can't speak truth or believe or confess



All because John Calvin says differently,

Even when shown people dead in there trespasses, can do what's right or can speak the truth Or can confess, also rejected

Even then it's not enough.

Even when people with patience and tolerance, to keep putting up with all your insults, who keep showing all theese crazy Calvinist beliefs and hyper grace beliefs over and over again, with there time and effort to show you the truth.

It's still not enough. Also rejected.

And no doubt you'll post another rejection straight away when you read this.

People who confess there sins are deserving Of God love

People who speak the truth to God are deserving of God love.

People who seek his wisdom for his purposes are deserving of God's love.

People who don't do this do not get the same love, what is so difficult about this to understand.