The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It
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You did not once quote the actual gospel.
It seems that you are obsessed with the law.
Here is the Gospel delivered to the Gentiles by Paul.
1 Corinthians 15:1-5
Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
You some how did not mention the gospel even once.
I am at a loss to understand what you think the gospel is?
It seems that you are obsessed with the law.
Here is the Gospel delivered to the Gentiles by Paul.
1 Corinthians 15:1-5
Now I make known to you, brothers and sisters, the gospel which I preached to you, which you also received, in which you also stand, by which you also are saved, if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
You some how did not mention the gospel even once.
I am at a loss to understand what you think the gospel is?
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When certain members speak of the law, when they say the law of Moses, they mean the full 613 mitzvot.
One member even claims that these 613 are written on our hearts, and we should be doing our best to
practice a religion that is by all intents and purposes completely impossible to follow.
One member even claims that these 613 are written on our hearts, and we should be doing our best to
practice a religion that is by all intents and purposes completely impossible to follow.
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The law does remain for the lawless, who will be judged and condemned by it. Actually, they are
condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son, whereas,
there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son, whereas,
there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
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At the risk of stating the obvious, I believe the following verses (with some deductive reasoning applied), provide a reasonable case as to the meaning of the "my law. The "my law" and the "law of God" I believe are synonymous - I think this association is appropriate because in Jerimah 31 it is God Himself speaking, while in Romans (below), Paul is speaking about God (of course with God moving him to do so).
Verse 7 (and the other like verses in the vicinity), by stating that the carnal mind "is not subject to the law of God", thereby identifies what the law of God is not. By identifying what it is not, the law of God can then be isolated and made visible. That law. I believe, is made known in verse 8:2 (and other like verses in the vicinity), which law, is Christ Himself.
BTW, it is early here and I've only had two cups of coffee thus far (so I could be wrong), but I believe verses quoted in the preceding post regarding Jerimiah, are actually in Jerimiah 31, not 30. No big deal just a typo I'm sure, but I thought I'd mention it in case someone else tries to read them.
[Rom 8:1-10 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is also referred to in the Bible as the law of liberty:
[Jas 1:25 KJV]
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
[Jas 2:12 KJV] 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
We can know the Mosaic Law is not God's law by a multitude of verses contained in the Bible. Notice in the following verses. that those who despised Moses' law were put to physical death, but those who violate the law of God are put to spiritual death: the second death. So, Moses' law applied only to this world, not the next world, but God's law applies to the next world, not this world.
[Heb 10:27-29 KJV]
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Verse 7 (and the other like verses in the vicinity), by stating that the carnal mind "is not subject to the law of God", thereby identifies what the law of God is not. By identifying what it is not, the law of God can then be isolated and made visible. That law. I believe, is made known in verse 8:2 (and other like verses in the vicinity), which law, is Christ Himself.
BTW, it is early here and I've only had two cups of coffee thus far (so I could be wrong), but I believe verses quoted in the preceding post regarding Jerimiah, are actually in Jerimiah 31, not 30. No big deal just a typo I'm sure, but I thought I'd mention it in case someone else tries to read them.
[Rom 8:1-10 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is also referred to in the Bible as the law of liberty:
[Jas 1:25 KJV]
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
[Jas 2:12 KJV] 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
We can know the Mosaic Law is not God's law by a multitude of verses contained in the Bible. Notice in the following verses. that those who despised Moses' law were put to physical death, but those who violate the law of God are put to spiritual death: the second death. So, Moses' law applied only to this world, not the next world, but God's law applies to the next world, not this world.
[Heb 10:27-29 KJV]
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
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The law does remain for the lawless, who will be judged and condemned by it. Actually, they are
condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son, whereas,
there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son, whereas,
there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Ephesians 2:14-16 NLT - "For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death."
Jesus Prophesied that He would tear down each stone from those amazing buildings within the "city." He didn't do that, but what He did do was destroy the "Temple" of the Law and created a new system, a new Covenant separate from the Law. Once Jesus rose from the dead and the curtain to the Inner Room was torn in two, that old Covenant came to an end.
If that's not what happened, wow . . . I'm livin' in a fantasy world!
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Oh wow. That's amazing. I have never noticed that in Scripture. I have always followed the Plan of God as below:
Ephesians 2:14-16 NLT - "For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death."
Jesus Prophesied that He would tear down each stone from those amazing buildings within the "city." He didn't do that, but what He did do was destroy the "Temple" of the Law and created a new system, a new Covenant separate from the Law. Once Jesus rose from the dead and the curtain to the Inner Room was torn in two, that old Covenant came to an end.
If that's not what happened, wow . . . I'm livin' in a fantasy world!
Ephesians 2:14-16 NLT - "For Christ himself has brought peace to us. He united Jews and Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the cross, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. 15 He did this by ending the system of law with its commandments and regulations. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. 16 Together as one body, Christ reconciled both groups to God by means of his death on the cross, and our hostility toward each other was put to death."
Jesus Prophesied that He would tear down each stone from those amazing buildings within the "city." He didn't do that, but what He did do was destroy the "Temple" of the Law and created a new system, a new Covenant separate from the Law. Once Jesus rose from the dead and the curtain to the Inner Room was torn in two, that old Covenant came to an end.
If that's not what happened, wow . . . I'm livin' in a fantasy world!
In Matthew 4:15-23, it describes the Gospel that Jesus taught as the call to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. I spoke about Titus 2:14, where Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe what is spoken about in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 and Romans 10:8-13. In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, in regard to saying that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe what God raised Jesus from the dead (Titus 2:14). So what Christ accomplished through the cross is in accordance with the Gospel that he spent his ministry teaching.
Those who agree with the truth of these words as Scripture will consider Christ's Gospel to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand to be very good news and will be obsessed with teaching obedience to God's law in accordance with it:
Deuteronomy 6:4-7 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Psalms 1:1-2 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Indeed, that verse is true, though I think that Romans 10:5-8 referring to Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim should influence how we should understand the surrounding verses. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so confessing that Jesus is Lord is agreeing to obediently submit to God's word in accordance with Deuteronomy 30:11-16. Likewise, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sins while we continued to live in sin, so there must also be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law. Moreover, Romans 10:16 speaks against those who do not obey the Gospel.
Deuteronomy 6:4-7 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Psalms 1:1-2 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.
Indeed, that verse is true, though I think that Romans 10:5-8 referring to Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim should influence how we should understand the surrounding verses. Jesus is God's word made flesh, so confessing that Jesus is Lord is agreeing to obediently submit to God's word in accordance with Deuteronomy 30:11-16. Likewise, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe that God raised Jesus from the dead. Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sins while we continued to live in sin, so there must also be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law. Moreover, Romans 10:16 speaks against those who do not obey the Gospel.
Another way to put it is the the way to obey the greatest commandment in the Bible is by being obsessed with teaching repentance and obedience to God’s law (Deuteronomy 6:4-7), which is in accordance with many other verses in both the OT and the NT that say that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments.
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In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God’s law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). Furthermore, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God’s law is the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross while to say that God’s law is not existent today is to strip Jesus of his purpose and work.
All of God’s righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), however, Ephesians 2:15 is referring to a law that is not eternal, therefore it is not referring to the Law of God, especially because the Bible never uses the Greek word “dogma” to refer to the Law of God. God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves. God did not make any mistakes when he gave His law, so He had no need to send Jesus to abolish His own law, especially because Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the Law of God and warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it Matthew 5:17-19). In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, not to free us from God’s law so that we could be free to do what it reveals to be wickedness. In Romans 3:31, Paul also confirmed that our faith does not abolish the Law of God, but rather our faith upholds it, yet that doesn’t stop people from trying to use his words to abolish it rather than uphold it by faith.
In Ephesians 2:10-19, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so it doesn’t make any sense to interpret that passage as saying that Jesus abolished his law for how to do good works. Paul said that Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, but through the blood of Christ all of those things are not longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. So it is speaking about Gentiles becoming joined to these things in accordance with becoming obedient to God’s law, not about Gentiles becoming separated from these things in accordance with God’s law being abolished.
In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, not not removing our salvation by separating us from it.
All of God’s righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160), however, Ephesians 2:15 is referring to a law that is not eternal, therefore it is not referring to the Law of God, especially because the Bible never uses the Greek word “dogma” to refer to the Law of God. God did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, but rather His law instructs us to love our neighbor as ourselves. God did not make any mistakes when he gave His law, so He had no need to send Jesus to abolish His own law, especially because Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the Law of God and warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax the least part of it Matthew 5:17-19). In Acts 3:25-26, Jesus was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness, not to free us from God’s law so that we could be free to do what it reveals to be wickedness. In Romans 3:31, Paul also confirmed that our faith does not abolish the Law of God, but rather our faith upholds it, yet that doesn’t stop people from trying to use his words to abolish it rather than uphold it by faith.
In Ephesians 2:10-19, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so it doesn’t make any sense to interpret that passage as saying that Jesus abolished his law for how to do good works. Paul said that Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, but through the blood of Christ all of those things are not longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. So it is speaking about Gentiles becoming joined to these things in accordance with becoming obedient to God’s law, not about Gentiles becoming separated from these things in accordance with God’s law being abolished.
Jesus Prophesied that He would tear down each stone from those amazing buildings within the "city." He didn't do that, but what He did do was destroy the "Temple" of the Law and created a new system, a new Covenant separate from the Law. Once Jesus rose from the dead and the curtain to the Inner Room was torn in two, that old Covenant came to an end.
If that's not what happened, wow . . . I'm livin' in a fantasy world!
If that's not what happened, wow . . . I'm livin' in a fantasy world!