THE REAL BAPTISM

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Wansvic

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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@jamessb @wolfwint

The accounts in Acts 2,8,10 and 19 do confirm tongues is the outward evidence of the initial indwelling by the Holy Ghost. In each case the evidence proved the experience had actually taken place.


I start with the Samaritan account because it is a prime example of a truth many fail to realize. Please don't skim over this first question as it has profound significance. How did Philip and others know the Samaritans had not received the Holy Ghost? I hope you will ponder on that. The Samaritans believed the gospel and submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus, yet did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later:

"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money," Acts 8:15-18


At Pentecost - Upon being indwelt by the Holy Ghost all spoke in tongues:
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance...
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:4, 33



The Gentiles - The same evidence that accompanied the giving of the Holy Ghost was tongues:
"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." Acts 10:45-46, 11:15


The 12 Ephesians - The same evidence reveals the experience occurred:
"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:6
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

Senior Member
#163
Feb 15, 2014
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#163
Wansvic said:
@jamessb @wolfwint

The accounts in Acts 2,8,10 and 19 do confirm tongues is the outward evidence of the initial indwelling by the Holy Ghost. In each case the evidence proved the experience had actually taken place.


I start with the Samaritan account because it is a prime example of a truth many fail to realize. Please don't skim over this first question as it has profound significance. How did Philip and others know the Samaritans had not received the Holy Ghost? I hope you will ponder on that. The Samaritans believed the gospel and submitted to water baptism in the name of Jesus, yet did not receive the Holy Ghost until days later:

"Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money," Acts 8:15-18


At Pentecost - Upon being indwelt by the Holy Ghost all spoke in tongues:
"And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance...
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:4, 33



The Gentiles - The same evidence that accompanied the giving of the Holy Ghost was tongues:
"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,"
"And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning." Acts 10:45-46, 11:15


The 12 Ephesians - The same evidence reveals the experience occurred:
"And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:6
Click to expand...
Nothing new. This are no proof that every believer who received the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Its a sign/proof thst the Holy Spirit is given to all mankind and not only the jews, as they expectet.
This teaching came up in 1900, begore there are evidence of spesking in tongues in Evangelisten Meetings or in cults. But not in the regular Christian churches. Or you must then believe that the founders of the free churches furing the whole church historie almost nobody, till 1900 in azusa, had not the Holy Spirit. Cause they dont spoken in tounges and they dont taught it to their followers/churches.
According your believe I then not have the Holy Spirit. Without Holy Spirit then I also will not be saved.
But I know he lives in me!
 
B

BlessedBeMyRock

New member
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Mar 18, 2024
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Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 
G

glf

Active member
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Mar 18, 2023
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The elementary principles of the oracles of God are:
Repentance from dead works, faith towards God, the doctrine of baptisms, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgement.

There are several baptisms:
Proselytes to Judaism were water baptized, the water baptism of John, the baptism of the Spirit and fire, and the baptism by the Spirit upon conversion to Christ, whose greatness of glory makes the other baptisms' glory to pale by comparison.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body. 1 Cor 12: 13. This baptism occurs at the indwelling of the Spirit as the Lord rejoices more over that one than does for all others. It is also meant to be eternal.

He therefor that ministers the Spirit and works miracles among you, does he do it by the works of the law or by the hearing with faith. Gal 2: 5. This will cease as the gifts of the Spirit end along with faith and we obtain our resurrection bodies.

Water baptism is a baptism of repentance and represents the first act of obedience to the Spirit for a new believer as revealed to oneself and to the church. Acts 19: 4.

I say it this way because I see a division in these elementary principals of the oracles of God. The first two concern the individual, the second two concern following the Spirit's leading of the body of Christ, and the final two deal with our burden and motivation to minister to the lost who are loved so greatly by the Lord. This is aligned with the Spirit's ministry of reproving the world or the lost for sin, the body of Christ for righteousness, and judgement over the evil one for the church's victory over the gates of hell.

IMO. PTL!
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#166
Nov 27, 2018
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#166
wolfwint said:
Nothing new. This are no proof that every believer who received the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Its a sign/proof thst the Holy Spirit is given to all mankind and not only the jews, as they expectet.
This teaching came up in 1900, begore there are evidence of spesking in tongues in Evangelisten Meetings or in cults. But not in the regular Christian churches. Or you must then believe that the founders of the free churches furing the whole church historie almost nobody, till 1900 in azusa, had not the Holy Spirit. Cause they dont spoken in tounges and they dont taught it to their followers/churches.
According your believe I then not have the Holy Spirit. Without Holy Spirit then I also will not be saved.
But I know he lives in me!
Click to expand...
Just sharing what the bible actually reveals. As stated, Acts 19 refutes that speaking in tongues only occurred in order to show salvation was available for all nations. What's recorded in Acts 19 happened over 20+ years after the Holy Ghost was initially given at Pentecost.
Also, the idea that practically no one spoke in tongues until the 1900's is not accurate. You might want to research publications of church history.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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#167
Wansvic said:
Just sharing what the bible actually reveals. As stated, Acts 19 refutes that speaking in tongues only occurred in order to show salvation was available for all nations. What's recorded in Acts 19 happened over 20+ years after the Holy Ghost was initially given at Pentecost.
Also, the idea that practically no one spoke in tongues until the 1900's is not accurate. You might want to research publications of church history.
Click to expand...
You should read my post again. I did not say that nobody spoke in tongues during church historie.
 
D

DJT_47

Well-known member
#168
Oct 20, 2022
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#168
Godswilling said:
WHAT IS A REAL BAPTISM?

John The Baptist preached how baptism is important.
Whosoever is not Baptist by him the punishment is in hell.

MATTHEW 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

There are 2 kinds of baptism that a person should have according to John the Baptist.
1. Water unto Repentance
2. Holy Ghost and With Fire

MATTHEW 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST, and WITH FIRE:

As I notice to every group in Christianity, they only perform 1 baptism which is in water.

WHAT IS THE REAL BAPTISM AS JOHN THE BAPTIST PREACHED IN MATTHEW 3:11?

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2 BAPTISMS?
Click to expand...
You are misunderstanding that scripture you quoted of John the baptist and thereby are misapplying it.
 
T

tylerbones1313

Active member
#169
May 1, 2022
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#169
wolfwint said:
Nothing new. This are no proof that every believer who received the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. Its a sign/proof thst the Holy Spirit is given to all mankind and not only the jews, as they expectet.
This teaching came up in 1900, begore there are evidence of spesking in tongues in Evangelisten Meetings or in cults. But not in the regular Christian churches. Or you must then believe that the founders of the free churches furing the whole church historie almost nobody, till 1900 in azusa, had not the Holy Spirit. Cause they dont spoken in tounges and they dont taught it to their followers/churches.
According your believe I then not have the Holy Spirit. Without Holy Spirit then I also will not be saved.
But I know he lives in me!
Click to expand...
Those churches outside of Pentecostal churches, don't for the most part, believe in Speaking in Tongues. For those who don't believe it is for them or don't believe they exist at all. Those are the ones who never receive the baptism of The Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. For EVERYONE who has ever TRULY been baptized with the Holy Ghost and Fire baptism John spoke about, spoke or currently able to speak in tongues as a sign of this baptism.
 
T

tylerbones1313

Active member
#171
May 1, 2022
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#171
Godswilling said:
WHAT IS A REAL BAPTISM?

John The Baptist preached how baptism is important.
Whosoever is not Baptist by him the punishment is in hell.

MATTHEW 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

There are 2 kinds of baptism that a person should have according to John the Baptist.
1. Water unto Repentance
2. Holy Ghost and With Fire

MATTHEW 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST, and WITH FIRE:

As I notice to every group in Christianity, they only perform 1 baptism which is in water.

WHAT IS THE REAL BAPTISM AS JOHN THE BAPTIST PREACHED IN MATTHEW 3:11?

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2 BAPTISMS?
Click to expand...
Acts Chapter 2
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized (I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE.) (Note: Normally most christians repent and are baptized same time or shortly apart, if they truly believe in His Words.) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST, and WITH FIRE)(Speaking in Tongues referred here obviously)
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

This was a direct answer to this: Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? (These people are asking what to do to be saved.)
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

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Dec 29, 2023
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#172
mailmandan said:
Speaking in tongues is not a necessary sign of salvation | carm.org
Click to expand...

Carm is woke calvinism so much of their stuff is fake gospel.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#173
Stan_the_Man said:
Carm is woke calvinism so much of their stuff is fake gospel.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Click to expand...
Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? Regardless of what you think of CARM, that article summed it right up using scripture.
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

Banned
#174
Dec 29, 2023
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#174
mailmandan said:
Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? Regardless of what you think of CARM, that article summed it right up using scripture.
Click to expand...

They may have a few good things to say, but that doesn't change the fact they teach false doctrine and they are a vehicle for the enemy to use to deceive people with false doctrine.

That's part of the devil's deception is not all that the false teachers say is wrong.

That's the bait, the hook that gets people to start listening to them so they will accept the false doctrine that is mixed in with good doctrine. A little leaven corrupts the entire ministry at carm.

A few years back I exchanged emails with whatever the head guy's name is, and he's a clueless cherry picker that ignores large portions of scripture as though it's non-existent. That's typical calvinism right there.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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#175
Stan_the_Man said:
They may have a few good things to say, but that doesn't change the fact they teach false doctrine and they are a vehicle for the enemy to use to deceive people with false doctrine.

That's part of the devil's deception is not all that the false teachers say is wrong.

That's the bait, the hook that gets people to start listening to them so they will accept the false doctrine that is mixed in with good doctrine. A little leaven corrupts the entire ministry at carm.

A few years back I exchanged emails with whatever the head guy's name is, and he's a clueless cherry picker that ignores large portions of scripture as though it's non-existent. That's typical calvinism right there.
Click to expand...
Compare what the article says with scripture and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
 
Stan_the_Man

Stan_the_Man

Banned
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Dec 29, 2023
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#176
mailmandan said:
Compare what the article says with scripture and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
Click to expand...

I'll pass because much of what carm teaches is false doctrine.

Once I find out a ministry is involved in teaching false doctrine, I don't pay any further attention to them.

The old saying about "chew the meat and spit out the bones" came from the devil

If the meat has poison in it, we should not eat it at all.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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Feb 15, 2014
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#177
tylerbones1313 said:
Those churches outside of Pentecostal churches, don't for the most part, believe in Speaking in Tongues. For those who don't believe it is for them or don't believe they exist at all. Those are the ones who never receive the baptism of The Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. For EVERYONE who has ever TRULY been baptized with the Holy Ghost and Fire baptism John spoke about, spoke or currently able to speak in tongues as a sign of this baptism.
Click to expand...
This makes no sense. Either it is for all or not. Ot is not depend to believe or teach it first. The believers in Acts 2,8 10 and 19 did not expect to speak in tongues and they were not taught orcasked to believe it. It was simply there!
So the believers who are not " TRULY" been baptised with the Holy Spirit and do not speak in tongues. What is with them? They are then no believers? They dont have the Holy Spirit?
 
Blain

Blain

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Aug 28, 2012
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#178
Artios1 said:
Trust me ….you do not want to be baptized with/in fire.

Mat 3:12

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.



Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

The word BUT is a contrasting conjunction setting in contrast that which was just spoken. Jesus DID NOT use the words “in addition to water” … instead He said “But Ye shall …”

In the vernacular ….. When the greater comes… the lesser is done away with …And it changed because there was a new covenant installed on/at Pentecost … water is inferior to what is now a far superior and truly internal….forever!



Johns baptism was unto repentance …confessing their sins,

Mat 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Spirit baptism is confessing the savior from sin Jesus Christ
Click to expand...
No trust me you want this fire it is his fire not this worlds fire it burns and surges within you it gives you such strength and such fiery resolve in him it is ablosultely drowining you with fire and you feel his power flowing through your veins
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
#179
May 29, 2013
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#179
Godswilling said:
WHAT IS A REAL BAPTISM?

John The Baptist preached how baptism is important.
Whosoever is not Baptist by him the punishment is in hell.

MATTHEW 3:10
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Click to expand...
That verse doesn't say that anyone who wasn't baptized by John would go to Hell.

There are 2 kinds of baptism that a person should have according to John the Baptist.
1. Water unto Repentance
2. Holy Ghost and With Fire

MATTHEW 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with WATER UNTO REPENTANCE. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the HOLY GHOST, and WITH FIRE:

As I notice to every group in Christianity, they only perform 1 baptism which is in water.

WHAT IS THE REAL BAPTISM AS JOHN THE BAPTIST PREACHED IN MATTHEW 3:11?

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2 BAPTISMS?
Click to expand...
Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit. Jesus told the apostles to baptize the nations in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Baptism with water continued on after the ascension. Many were baptized after Peter preached. Acts 8 is very explicit that water was involved when we read about the Ethiopian eunuch.
 
T

tylerbones1313

Active member
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May 1, 2022
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#180
wolfwint said:
This makes no sense. Either it is for all or not. Ot is not depend to believe or teach it first. The believers in Acts 2,8 10 and 19 did not expect to speak in tongues and they were not taught orcasked to believe it. It was simply there!
Click to expand...
They did expect to speak in tongues because of what happened in Acts Chapter 2, when the baptism of the Holy Ghost was 1st poured out.

wolfwint said:
So the believers who are not " TRULY" been baptised with the Holy Spirit and do not speak in tongues. What is with them? They are then no believers? They dont have the Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...
If you are TRULY baptized with the Holy Ghost and Fire, which John spoke of, and which took place on the day of Pentecost, just like everyone there, you will speak in tongues as a sign of this baptism.

This is biblical truth. Find me Scripture to deny it.
 
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