What if you die before water baptism?
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Is there really such a thing as a "lukewarm Christian"? Or is this an oxymoron? Jesus claims in Rev 3:14-21 to the Laodicean church that they were neither cold nor hot, so He will spit them out of His mouth. Does this mean that someone became a Christian, but then didn't obey Christ in their lifestyle (for example supported the LGBT+ lifestyle). So they became a Christian and then lost their salvation? Or, does this mean that they "claimed" to be Christians, but didn't live a righteous life or even care that their sinful lifestyle offended Christ? I think the later because I don't believe that a "real" Christian Believer can lose their salvation. But durin the Bema Seat Judgment, they will loose out on obtaining rewards because of their unconfessed sins. What do you think?
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requirement is a false narrative. Think is about when one comes to saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and is told to Follow Christ in Baptism. You say know it not needed.
The arrogance and profound. Do we play semantics? One has the ability to be baptized. There is nothing to hold them from doing so, but "it's not required." Believe and be baptized. Obedience is required, is it not?
The arrogance and profound. Do we play semantics? One has the ability to be baptized. There is nothing to hold them from doing so, but "it's not required." Believe and be baptized. Obedience is required, is it not?
I see it two ways
John tells us a child of God can not "live in sin" and whoever "lives in sin" has never seen or known God.
As far as the church, It was talking about the church itself. God said he would remove the lampstand. The church actually died. Not the believer. It may have had walking believers in it..
John tells us a child of God can not "live in sin" and whoever "lives in sin" has never seen or known God.
As far as the church, It was talking about the church itself. God said he would remove the lampstand. The church actually died. Not the believer. It may have had walking believers in it..
Again
The only time I ever hear required come into question is when we have people say it is required to be saved.
No one goes around telling new believers baptism is not required.. Actually, the only time I have ever heard it is in a chat room, or if I am talking to a member of the CoC or something.
The only time I ever hear required come into question is when we have people say it is required to be saved.
No one goes around telling new believers baptism is not required.. Actually, the only time I have ever heard it is in a chat room, or if I am talking to a member of the CoC or something.
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Romans 6:3-4 (from your post, with my emphases): "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
There are two ways to understand this: literally or figuratively. I don't know too many people who were buried into death. So it is obviously figurative. I don't know anyone who has been raised from the dead! Therefore, it must be symbolic.
Beyond that, I don't know of anyone living in the current age who has been crucified! That also must be symbolic.
Therefore, baptism is a statement on the part of a believer that s/he has symbolically put to death the old person (sinner) that s/he was and was reborn as the new person (saint) in Christ.
BTW, nobody can be a participant in Jesus' "crucifix", since a crucifix , (from the Latin cruci fixus meaning '(one) fixed to a cross'), is a cross with an image of Jesus on it, as distinct from a bare cross. The representation of Jesus himself on the cross is referred to in English as the corpus (Latin for 'body'). The correct word is "crucifixion".
Your comment about hammering some nails into your hands and feet is totally absurd. In case you're not aware, the Romans hammered nails into Jesus' hands and feet. So it is impossible for anyone to identify with the ones who crucify and the victim of the crucifixion.
Finally, do you really hammer some nails into your hands and feet in water baptism? Now pay attention...
Water baptism is a symbolic statement of spiritual death and rebirth only. It is not a requirement for any believer.
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
There are two ways to understand this: literally or figuratively. I don't know too many people who were buried into death. So it is obviously figurative. I don't know anyone who has been raised from the dead! Therefore, it must be symbolic.
Beyond that, I don't know of anyone living in the current age who has been crucified! That also must be symbolic.
Therefore, baptism is a statement on the part of a believer that s/he has symbolically put to death the old person (sinner) that s/he was and was reborn as the new person (saint) in Christ.
BTW, nobody can be a participant in Jesus' "crucifix", since a crucifix , (from the Latin cruci fixus meaning '(one) fixed to a cross'), is a cross with an image of Jesus on it, as distinct from a bare cross. The representation of Jesus himself on the cross is referred to in English as the corpus (Latin for 'body'). The correct word is "crucifixion".
Your comment about hammering some nails into your hands and feet is totally absurd. In case you're not aware, the Romans hammered nails into Jesus' hands and feet. So it is impossible for anyone to identify with the ones who crucify and the victim of the crucifixion.
Finally, do you really hammer some nails into your hands and feet in water baptism? Now pay attention...
Water baptism is a symbolic statement of spiritual death and rebirth only. It is not a requirement for any believer.
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Part II...
Finally, here is Romans 6:1-14 (with my emphases)
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
Finally, here is Romans 6:1-14 (with my emphases)
"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."
It is a Literal statment, not symbolic
I was literally spiritually baptized (placed into) Christ death,
I was literally spiritually baptized into Christ.
I was literally spiritually raised from the death (born again)
No water is involved in Romans 6.. In fact, In greek speaking countries before the english text. no one would have thought water when they saw these words..
I was literally spiritually baptized (placed into) Christ death,
I was literally spiritually baptized into Christ.
I was literally spiritually raised from the death (born again)
No water is involved in Romans 6.. In fact, In greek speaking countries before the english text. no one would have thought water when they saw these words..
Re: for example supported the LGBT+ lifestyle. Obviously there is something about loving your neighbor as yourself that you don't understand. Do you know who helped the stricken man? A Samaritan man. (Samaritans were despised by the Jews in the same way that you despise LGBTQs.)
Here is everything that Jesus Christ said about LGBTQs, homosexuality/lesbian behavior: " " (NOTHING!)
Here is everything that Jesus Christ said about LGBTQs, homosexuality/lesbian behavior: " " (NOTHING!)
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First off there is only one way to understand the text in context.
1. Paul is saying "do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?" This most likely is rhetorical to some degree.
Also, Paul said, "were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death."
Through water baptism. Literally or figuratively? It can be both, and don't forget Symbolically.
Just like the wine and Bread for the last supper.
Romans 6:3-4 (from your post, with my emphases): "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
There are two ways to understand this: literally or figuratively. I don't know too many people who were buried into death. So it is obviously figurative. I don't know anyone who has been raised from the dead! Therefore, it must be symbolic.
Beyond that, I don't know of anyone living in the current age who has been crucified! That also must be symbolic.
Therefore, baptism is a statement on the part of a believer that s/he has symbolically put to death the old person (sinner) that s/he was and was reborn as the new person (saint) in Christ.
BTW, nobody can be a participant in Jesus' "crucifix", since a crucifix , (from the Latin cruci fixus meaning '(one) fixed to a cross'), is a cross with an image of Jesus on it, as distinct from a bare cross. The representation of Jesus himself on the cross is referred to in English as the corpus (Latin for 'body'). The correct word is "crucifixion".
Your comment about hammering some nails into your hands and feet is totally absurd. In case you're not aware, the Romans hammered nails into Jesus' hands and feet. So it is impossible for anyone to identify with the ones who crucify and the victim of the crucifixion.
Finally, do you really hammer some nails into your hands and feet in water baptism? Now pay attention...
Water baptism is a symbolic statement of spiritual death and rebirth only. It is not a requirement for any believer.
You need to read Roman 6 AGAIN and 7.
Symbolic doesn't equal not being required to be water baptized. Let me ask you this? Are you water baptized, yes or no?
I look at both water baptism and Communion.
Both represent the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord. That is the gospel message.
I'm not RCC, so I do not hold to the false teaching of transubstantiation. yet as Jesus said, DO this in remembrance of me and when you do do this you show the Lord death and resurrection until he comes.
Water baptism is symbolic of the grave, of the old man dying and being buried, and of the New man coming up out of the water alive to Christ. It can be ceremonial, symbolic, or literal. Was the water imagery?
Both represent the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord. That is the gospel message.
I'm not RCC, so I do not hold to the false teaching of transubstantiation. yet as Jesus said, DO this in remembrance of me and when you do do this you show the Lord death and resurrection until he comes.
Water baptism is symbolic of the grave, of the old man dying and being buried, and of the New man coming up out of the water alive to Christ. It can be ceremonial, symbolic, or literal. Was the water imagery?