Forgiveness

I am glad I am not the only one to hit post before I have finished typing hehe.

It's very interesting to read your message. God made man in his image and for a while all was good but Adam disobeyed God and did the only thing God said not to do. When God said that he made man in his image does he mean what people look like? Or what they are like?
Also...
When Jesus said "if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them. If you retain the sins or any they are retained" is he letting us make that decision?
Thanks for your help and patience

The unforgiving servant was never a good tree:


Matthew 7:17-20

New Living Translation

17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit.19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.

Good questions.

If I may, much of what eludes us is often in Kingdom language. People are typically not accustomed to the implications of that language. It tends to be absolute and more far-reaching. We are also dealing with eternity which has implications of its own.

Let me provide an example.

During creation, when God said such a thing was "good" we tend to insert our idea of that word: "the opposite of bad". But that's not the meaning. "Good", like other words, has many meanings. When God says "it is good" He means "it is well established". Even without knowing we will use this same meaning: when placing a support beam in construction force is needed in the last phase. Typically one guy will apply the force on one end of the beam and the other will gauge the placement. When the beam is where it needs to be, the one gauging the placement will yell "That's good!".

So, we have to deal with God's image and likeness with this awareness.

Since God is Spirit, His image and likeness cannot pertain to His flesh or appearance. His image has to do with His character and His likeness has to do with His behavior. Adam and Woman possessed these traits of their Father and did not think themselves naked: they were spirit beings, like their father, but clothed in flesh, so that they could operate within time and space.

Today, when we are reconciled to God in Christ ("..God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation...") we are reborn with the promise of His image and likeness: the ability to represent our Father in everything we do. But, like a child, we do not possess these things in full measure at the start. We are expected to grow up, mature, so that we can handle the things of God in increasing responsibility.

When it comes to forgiveness of sins we may either retain the sins of others or we may forgive the sins of others. Notice, first, that they were given the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them. The Spirit is the current authority in the earth. Certainly the Lord has been given all authority in heaven and on earth BUT in this authority He sent the Spirit to represent Him perfectly. This is the Kingdom language. If one is sent to represent the king, then however you treat that one is the way you are treating the king. So, if you slander the representative or worse, kill him, it is as if you killed or slandered the king. The king is then just to deal with you within these parameters.

This is why, at Pentecost, when Peter stood with the 11 and proclaimed to the Jews "This Jesus you killed was the One God sent!" the Jews were cut to the heart. I mean, they knew what happened if you killed an earthly man's son, they could not image their fate for killing God's.

So, when they cried out "What do we do?!" Peter's response was with keeping with forgiveness or retaining: "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

After repenting and being immersed in the name of Jesus Christ, Peter could declare, in the authority of the Lord by the Spirit, "Your sins are forgiven".

We may also do this when people repent to us of their sins. We know that if we confess our sins, the Lord is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Declaring their sins forgiven and cleansed is an echo of this kingdom decree. We can declare it as His representatives.

Yeah he was forgiven then he went out and wouldn’t forgive and then his lord sent him to the tormentors not because of his original debt that was forgiven but because he would not forgive the other guy as his lord forgave him

the parable is the lord teaching us about forgivness it doesn’t have anything to do with a tree and fruit it has to do with the law of mercy

It’s why Jesus concludes the parable like he does

“So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:35‬

We try to not hear it but it always says the same things if we don’t forgive others what’s going to happen to us ?

instead of us trying to figure out how this isnt really true why don’t we just believe what he’s saying and start making sure we always forgive others ?

that’s sort of my simple theory let Jesus be right when he’s teaching me about God and forgiveness and my salvation ect ect But everyone has thier own way so it isn’t right for everyone it seems to work well for me to change things

The fact that he did not have a heart change, and was unwilling to forgive others, proves that he wasn’t saved and wasn’t a good tree bearing good fruit.
Sin debt has been paid for all.
Not all avail themselves and believe and become born again.

So those that aren’t born again, will have to pay their sin debt in hell.

That’s what this parable is all about.

The passage you're referring to appears in John 20:22-23, where Jesus breathes on His disciples and says, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." This moment occurs after Jesus' resurrection, when He appears to His disciples and commissions them for their mission.

This passage is rich with theological significance:

Receive the Holy Spirit: This act symbolizes the impartation of the Holy Spirit to the disciples, preparing them for the ministry they are about to undertake. It's a pivotal moment that equips and empowers the disciples for their mission in the world, a foretaste of the fuller outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost (Acts 2). The Holy Spirit is given not just for empowerment, but also for guidance, wisdom, and the authority to carry out Jesus' work on earth.

Authority to Forgive Sins: The statement about forgiving or retaining sins has been interpreted in various ways within Christian tradition. It's important to note that the ultimate authority to forgive sins belongs to God. However, in this context, Jesus is granting the disciples the authority to declare the forgiveness of sins through the gospel. When they preach repentance and faith in Jesus Christ, they are, in effect, announcing God's forgiveness to those who believe. Conversely, to those who do not accept the gospel, the disciples pronounce that forgiveness is withheld, meaning the state of sin remains. This authority is tied to their proclamation of the gospel message and is an extension of Jesus' ministry of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:18-20).

In summary, this passage highlights the empowerment of the disciples by the Holy Spirit and the authority given to them to proclaim (not actually only God can do that) forgiveness of sins in Jesus' name. It underscores the responsibility and privilege of the Christian community to be agents of reconciliation, offering the message of God's forgiveness to the world.

The parable is simple and about what it says it’s the king telling believers about forgivness in his kingdom

It’s about what it clearly and plainly says

peter asks the lord a question about forgivness and he answers


“Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he then tells the story of a man who was in debt and couldn’t pay what he owed like all sinners can’t repay what they have already done and owe. His lord is merciful to him and forgives all his debt (like Jesus died to forgive our sins because of his mercy )

a then in answering peters wuestion about forgivness he shows us the same things he was teaching in the gospel

He goes out now forgiven and finds someone that owes him and has no mercy on the man insists he is repaid in full no forgivness

“But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:28-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now the man who was forgiven to begin with who had his debt cancelled is recalled by the king after he’s done this and Jesus concludes his teaching about forgivness in his kingdom

“Then his Lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his Lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.



So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:32-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s really clear what he’s teaching about the subject is forgivness we have been forgiven for our sins Jesus the judge and lord of all things has declared his judgement this is what he’s talking about in that parable

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why the man was treated like he treated the other guy

a don’t you understand how valuable that law is ? We’ve all sinned and we all still fail and do the wrong thing sometimes we still need forgivness too it’s there in Christ but it is always going to remain according to his words who died for us and rose again

The parable is this

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

had the man accepted the forgivness and then shared it with the others he wouldn’t have been recalled and given to the tormentors it’s just a simple lesson about forgivness taught by the lord taught by this guy

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus teachings are those of God when it comes to any subject such as forgivness it’s going to be like he said all we have to do is hear and believe him and we’ll be led home it’s detrimental when we avoid the simplicity of his teachings the parable is not a mystery it’s clearly about believers and forgivness in the kingdom of God taught directly by the king himself who’s declarations are irrevocable

we need to grasp that law of mercy because of judgement

The man in the parable shoild have lives like this as if he would be judged by the law of liberty in Christ

“So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law of liberty

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One of those truths that sets us free that we only find in his words the lords words

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We often hear things forst and then hear Jesus teaching and we end up rejecting his teachings for the sake of what we heard elsewhere but in the end Jesus words will be fulfilled and everyone that’s saying contrary things those things wil fail if we just hear and believe Jesus we’ll have a foundation that’s firm and immovable

I used to hold grudges but I make sure now daily to search for things to forgive often ot turns out I don’t have anything against anyone sometimes though I need to remember how important it is to make sure to forgive because Jesus died for that person that sinned against me also

if we let him write the gospel on our heart by herring and believing ….he will do it

Please learn the phrase:

“ Brevity is the soul of wit “

This has been really helpful thanks 😊
It's like in a church service when the pastor forgives sins in Jesus name.
If a person doesn't come to us and repent of their sin against us I believe God still says forgive them although it makes it harder. I guess that's when Jesus helps even more 🥰

I have no interest In learning the phrase to be honest but do like discussing the Bible as imperfect as I am and realize everyone else is

I don’t really think what you’re saying about” a heart change “ is off target at all brother , I’m saying we have to acknolwedge the gospel that’s what caused the heart change . If we hear and believe he will change our hearts and our minds but not if we reject his teachings

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬

notice they aren’t already free but everyone is captive and needs to acknolwedge the truth that grants repentance to be set free ?

The things Jesus said are that truth that’s actually what changes the heart and mind and saves people

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

forgive and be forgiven is a new word that can save imperfect people

“What exactly do you mean?”

im asking a question let me simplify it

1 is it self righteous to repent of sin and obey the lord ?

2 Or wrong to believe we need to do that ?

just curious about those two questions when your speaking about self righteousness no offense or anything intended was trying to discern what you meant by self righteous

Neither are wrong but that is not what I was referring to in my posted reply. It was addressed to the post that condemned those, like myself, who believe OSAS. Some people seem to delight in the prospect that Christians will go to hell. That's what I was addressing.

Yes I was just reading along and read that part and was wondering what you meant when you said self righteousness

i only asked because I found what you were saying interesting but wasn’t sure what you meant with that part

Are there toe typers here? Nose typing might be ok unless it's cold season.