Did GOD give any Laws to people before Moses?

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R

rrcn

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Oct 15, 2023
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#41
rrcn said:
God’s law seems to predates Adam & Eve, it would have been necessary to define iniquity (I.e transgression of the law) before Satan tempted them:

[Gen 3:1-5 KJV] 1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

[Eze 28:11-19 KJV] 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.

[Eze 28:11-19 KJV] 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more.
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Sorry about the duplicate, I meant to paste this reference also:
[Isa 14:12-17 KJV] 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?
 
S

SabbathBlessing

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FollowerofShiloh said:
So, there's many things we can do on the Sabbath besides rest. We can shop for food or go out to eat, or do the work of God, or feed my cattle, horses, dogs, have a picnic. Even though there's work involved, it can be done in order to eat or Do God's Work?
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The Sabbath is more than about rest, we are to rest from our works, to keep the Sabbath holy Exo 20:8 and the Bible is filled with ways to do that. The Sabbath really is about honoring God Isa 58:13 and spending quality time with God as like the examples of Jesus and the apostles going to church, reading His Word, sharing His Word, prayer and fellowship and the Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify us Isa 56:1-6 Eze 20:12. If we are hungry and want to pick a piece of fruit out of the garden, not a sin, nor is helping someone in need like the sick. The Sabbath is really about a memorial to God’s Creation to appreciate everything God has done for us. The Pharisees made the Sabbath all about rules and add many of their rules to the Sabbath which is why they persecuted Jesus without cause because Jesus kept the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, not the sabbath of the Pharisees which was the farthest about honoring God. .
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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SabbathBlessing said:
The Sabbath is more than about rest, we are to rest from our works, to keep the Sabbath holy Exo 20:8 and the Bible is filled with ways to do that. The Sabbath really is about honoring God Isa 58:13 and spending quality time with God as like the examples of Jesus and the apostles going to church, reading His Word, sharing His Word, prayer and fellowship and the Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify us Isa 56:1-6 Eze 20:12. If we are hungry and want to pick a piece of fruit out of the garden, not a sin, nor is helping someone in need like the sick. The Sabbath is really about a memorial to God’s Creation to appreciate everything God has done for us. The Pharisees made the Sabbath all about rules and add many of their rules to the Sabbath which is why they persecuted Jesus without cause because Jesus kept the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, not the sabbath of the Pharisees which was the farthest about honoring God. .
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Exactly, it's not as strict as people should be making it out to be.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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#44
SabbathBlessing said:
The Sabbath is more than about rest, we are to rest from our works, to keep the Sabbath holy Exo 20:8 and the Bible is filled with ways to do that. The Sabbath really is about honoring God Isa 58:13 and spending quality time with God as like the examples of Jesus and the apostles going to church, reading His Word, sharing His Word, prayer and fellowship and the Sabbath is meant to bless and sanctify us Isa 56:1-6 Eze 20:12. If we are hungry and want to pick a piece of fruit out of the garden, not a sin, nor is helping someone in need like the sick. The Sabbath is really about a memorial to God’s Creation to appreciate everything God has done for us. The Pharisees made the Sabbath all about rules and add many of their rules to the Sabbath which is why they persecuted Jesus without cause because Jesus kept the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments, not the sabbath of the Pharisees which was the farthest about honoring God. .
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It’s good that you don’t use electricity or water on the Sabbath. Wouldn’t want to rely on people working so that your conscience is clear. You probably collect enough water in pots on Friday for use the next day. Maybe tubs are filled for toilet flushes since the pumps use electricity. Oh, internet, phones, and screens, too. Those require people working 24/7. I’m sure police are not called upon either. Or the use of roads since they are patrolled all days. I mean let the heathens use the roads, am I right?!
 
S

SabbathBlessing

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Exactly, it's not as strict as people should be making it out to be.
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Agreed, the Pharisees were the ones about making the Sabbath a burden and about strict rule keeping adding rules that God didn’t, which is the legalist it approach instead of spending quality time with God on the day He set aside for holy use meant to bless and sanctify us.
 
Mii

Mii

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Aaron56 said:
It’s good that you don’t use electricity or water on the Sabbath. Wouldn’t want to rely on people working so that your conscience is clear. You probably collect enough water in pots on Friday for use the next day. Maybe tubs are filled for toilet flushes since the pumps use electricity. Oh, internet, phones, and screens, too. Those require people working 24/7. I’m sure police are not called upon either. Or the use of roads since they are patrolled all days. I mean let the heathens use the roads, am I right?!
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Romans 14:5 please. I don't see anywhere that this guy was advocating for an orthodox Jewish view of the Sabbath. That's taking it a bit too far. I think it's a personal decision and a "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" sort of deal. It's definitely pretty easy to get legalistic about it and that certainly brings the enemy around. It's about a person's heart and always has been.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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rrcn said:
God’s law seems to predates Adam & Eve,
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Since the entire universe was created in those six days of creation, how could anything predate that? Now if you are talking about God's natural laws, they originated before Adam and Eve, between the 1st and the 6th day. And if you are talking about what was in God's mind prior to creation, well everything was in His mind.
 
S

Soyeong

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vassal said:
In scripture we find different verses that seem to indicate that there were known Laws given by GOD?;

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What can deduce from this? I am not certain and would like your opinions,

Peace.
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God's character is eternal, so the way to act in accordance with or contrary to God's character is therefore also eternal, and sin is what is contrary to God's character, such as with righteousness being in accordance with God's character while unrighteousness is sin. The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's character as it does to describe aspects of the character of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier matters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because God's law is His instructions for how to divide between what is in accordance with or contrary to His character, and which is why sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4). For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160).

Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), which is because people were able to act in a way that is contrary to God's character before they had been given laws to teach them not to do that, moreover, Romans 5:13 means that there were no actions that became in accordance with or contrary to God's character when the law was given, but rather His law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. As you noted, there are many instances where God's laws were known prior to Sinai, so God did no wait until then to give His laws.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. God's way is also the way that He expresses aspects of His character, such as in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of His household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him. In Genesis 6:8-9, Noah found grace in the eyes of God, he was a righteous man, and he walked with God, so God was gracious to him by teaching him His law for how to walk in His way and he was righteous because he obeyed through faith. In 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in John 17:3, knowing God and Jesus is eternal life.
 
S

Soyeong

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Pilgrimshope said:
The Knowledge of good and evil

“See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:15‬ ‭

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The tree of life the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭


Remember Adam had access to the tree of life in Eden “ you are free to eat of any tree in the garden but he was warned against eating of the one tree of good and evil

We are like Adam and Eve , the garden is like the world , the gospel is like the tree of life and the law is like the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and everyone under it died but the gospel promises life
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Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in disobedience to God's instructions, so it does make any sense for you to try to associate as being like obedience to God's instructions. There are a number of ways where Eve's desire influenced her judgement (Genesis 3:6) and our desire clouds our judgement of what is right and wrong because by ourselves we can't be sure if something is truly good or if we just think that it is good because we desire it, so eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is about leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes rather than trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying His instructions in all of our ways and He will make our way straight (Proverbs 3:5-7).

Before Adam and Eve had eaten from either tree, they were at a crossroads between mortality and eternal life, where eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused them to become mortal while eating from the Tree of Life would have caused them to have eternal life. In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim, where the Israelites were at the same crossroads between life and a blessing for obedience to God's law or death and a curse for disobedience, so the verse that you cited undermines you claim that the law brings death instead of life.

In Deuteronomy 32:46-47, God's law is our very life. In Proverbs 3:18, it is a Tree of Life for all who take hold of it. In Proverb 6:23, for the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life. In Revelation 22:18, those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, no longer presenting ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin is contrasted with now presenting ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so getting to live in obedience to God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life.

This is not different from the Tree of Life being the Gospel of Christ because in Matthew 4:15-23, he began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of Christ. The Mosaic Law is God's word and it is contradictory to think that we should trust in God's word made flesh for eternal life, but not in God's word.
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

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● Gen 4:16-17 . . Then Cain went out from the presence of The Lord, and
settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. And Cain had relations with his wife
and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch

Back in the latter part of the decade of the 1960's, when I was just
beginning to seriously read the Bible, that passage led me to believe Adam's
wasn't the only family on Earth but that God had created numerous "cells"
like his in various places. My premise was based upon other parts of the
Bible that reveal God doesn't condone incest. (e.g. Lev 18:6-15)

However; the Adams were very definitely the only people on Earth back
then.

● Gen 3:20 . . Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the
mother of all the living.

● Acts 17:26 . . From one man he made every nation of men, that they
should inhabit the whole earth.

So then, Cain obviously married a sibling. But I had no clue as to how it was
okay for him to do so rather than patently wrong. Well; in time I discovered
that the laws of God, in particular His codified laws, are not retroactive.
(Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13 and Gal 3:17)

That fact comes in very handy when curious folks ask me to explain how
Jesus' human sacrifice was legal seeing as he-- born a Jew --was limited to
the atonements specified in the covenant that Moses' people entered into
with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, to wit:

● Deut 4:2 …You shall not add anything to what I command you or take
anything away from it, but keep the commandments of The Lord your God
that I enjoin upon you.

● Deut 5:29-30 …Be careful, then, to do as The Lord your God has
commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the
path that The Lord your God has enjoined upon you.

Well, the secret is: Jesus was designated and scheduled for the cross prior to
not only institution of the covenant, but also prior to creation of the heavens
and the earth. (Mic 5:2, 1Pet 1:20 & Rev 13:8) In other words: Jesus'
crucifixion was set in stone, so to speak, even before Adam took his first bite
of the forbidden fruit.
_
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

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~
● Gen 4:6-7 . . Then The Lord said to Cain: "If you do what is right, will you
not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your
door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."

* That's the very first mention of self control in the Bible. (cf. Rom 6:12)

FAQ: How was Cain supposed to know what's right seeing as how God had
not yet introduced His moral values per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy?

REPLY: His brother Abel was a prophet. (Luke 11:49-51)

Inspired people-- e.g. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Melchizedek, and the patriarchs, et
al --were essential in the early years of mankind's development primarily
due to Adam's intuitive moral values becoming those of a tin god via the
forbidden fruit incident.

● Gen 3:22 . . And the Lord God said: "The man has now become like one of
us, knowing good and evil."

In other words: mankind's natural feelings about good and evil lost their
divine potential early-on and became humanistic instead; so the old saw
"Let your conscience be your guide" is actually bad advice to give someone
seeking a meaningful association with their creator.
_
 
G

Gideon300

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SabbathBlessing said:
The rich man wasn't keeping God's law, he broke the very first commandment by placing his great riches over Jesus.

There is no scripture that says the Ten Commandments is a shadow, because its what we all will be judged by. James 2:10-12, Ecc 12:13-14, Mat 5:19-30, Rev 22:14-15 - How one comes up that we can worship other gods, vain His holy name, steal, covet or break the least of these as a shadow, despite Jesus telling us not to do that Mat 5:19-30 is always surprising, even if its a popular doctrine. God instead of deleting His law, wrote it in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33 and Jesus taught when we keep our rules over obeying the commandments of God- quoting from the Ten our hearts are far from Him Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13- the opposite of the New Covenant- God law written in our hearts, keeping Him close.

If you consider being obedient to God is a legalist I guess Jesus is one too as He faithfully kept all of the commandments John 15:10 as it our example to follow. 1 John 2:6

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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Yes. But this is what God's word has to say:

"For the law is only a shadow of the good things to come, not the realities themselves. It can never, by the same sacrifices offered year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." Hebrews 10:1

"…16Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ." Colossians 2: 16 & 17

I do not make these things up.

"8Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it legitimately. 9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers,…"
1 Timothy 1:8 & 9

In context, this is referring to the law of Moses. You obviously disagree. I'll say no more about it.
 
V

vassal

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#53
Nehemiah6 said:
Since the entire universe was created in those six days of creation, how could anything predate that? Now if you are talking about God's natural laws, they originated before Adam and Eve, between the 1st and the 6th day. And if you are talking about what was in God's mind prior to creation, well everything was in His mind.
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Interesting Nehemiah, the natural laws I was kind of thinking the same but have trouble defining them in a biblical context, if you could share your views on this it would be helpful. I have always wondered how at a very young age we have a strong inward knowledge of that is right and wrong, I know education is a big part of it but sometimes I wonder if these behaviours are not embedded within us in the way birds know where and when to migrate. It is a crazy theory but sometimes I wonder. thank you.

Peace.
 
V

vassal

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FollowerofShiloh said:
Jesus also came as a Jew, the lineage of Judah to fulfill the prophecy of David's Throne/Kingdom.
And He also """WORKED""" on the Sabbath. In John chapter 5 Jesus said on the SABBATH that His Father is working this very day so He (Jesus) is also working.

So if we are working for God we can work on the Sabbath.
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So then you agree with the pharisees condemning Jesus for breaking the law which is a sin? did you not know that was Jesus was doing is GOOD WORKS quite different from regular work that men normally do? did you not know that Jesus is one with GOD, he made all things and IS the Lord of the Sabbath?

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. ( here is an example of the twisted mind of the pharisees whoch jesus hated, they were accusing men followers of Jesus who were hungry to EAT and sustain their health and strength, which is not a sin or even a work but a necessity of LIfe itself)

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is onegreater than the temple.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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Mii said:
That's taking it a bit too far. I think it's a personal decision and a "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" sort of deal. .
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Let him defend himself.

Too far? You mean like claiming others don't love God and are not in His will because they don't use the 10 Commandments as their life template? Warning others of impending doom of they don't ascribe to his version of Judaism.

There is nothing personal about the garbage he writes.
 
V

vassal

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Aaron56 said:
It’s good that you don’t use electricity or water on the Sabbath. Wouldn’t want to rely on people working so that your conscience is clear. You probably collect enough water in pots on Friday for use the next day. Maybe tubs are filled for toilet flushes since the pumps use electricity. Oh, internet, phones, and screens, too. Those require people working 24/7. I’m sure police are not called upon either. Or the use of roads since they are patrolled all days. I mean let the heathens use the roads, am I right?!
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The pharisees were thinking this way, why do you mock which you do not understand instead of trying for a change.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

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vassal said:
The pharisees were thinking this way, why do you mock which you do not understand instead of trying for a change.
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See. There it is! More preaching.

I know my post struck a chord. It reveals the double-mindedness of your doctrine: you are willing for others to sin so that you can "Sabbath" in your garbage doctrine. Such a religion does not come from the One who is the Truth.
 
stilllearning

stilllearning

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vassal said:
In scripture we find different verses that seem to indicate that there were known Laws given by GOD?;

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

What can deduce from this? I am not certain and would like your opinions,

Peace.
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One of the most important things God gave was in the beginning, be fruitful and multiply. This is causing a real problem in our current western world. The leaders fully realize we are really facing a serious problem since we are not replacing deaths with enough new births. This of course effects many things namely in a fiscal sense as it is hard to have economic growth if you have a shrinking population.

Which is causing some foolish policies on immigration since they truly are aware of the demographic problem. However, they can't just admit that murdering the unborn was and is a real problem. So that early command by God be fruitful and multiply is really playing out today how important it was and is. So anyway that is a known law or command given by God that is having serious repercussions. It is making China regret their one child policy as business begins to shift from there to places like India, Vietnam, Mexico, and such.
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#59
Jan 24, 2024
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#59
vassal said:
So then you agree with the pharisees condemning Jesus for breaking the law which is a sin? did you not know that was Jesus was doing is GOOD WORKS quite different from regular work that men normally do? did you not know that Jesus is one with GOD, he made all things and IS the Lord of the Sabbath?

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat.

Mat 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. ( here is an example of the twisted mind of the pharisees whoch jesus hated, they were accusing men followers of Jesus who were hungry to EAT and sustain their health and strength, which is not a sin or even a work but a necessity of LIfe itself)

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?

Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

Mat 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is onegreater than the temple.

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
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You should not take that post as you did. If you read the back"n"forth you would understand I was fishing to learn his point of view. And in the end you can clearly see we believed the same. And never would I ever side with some religious type over Jesus. Had you paid attention you would have saved the effort and your own time with this un-needed post of yours plus my time having to explain it for you.
 
V

vassal

Well-known member
#60
Jan 20, 2024
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#60
FollowerofShiloh said:
You should not take that post as you did. If you read the back"n"forth you would understand I was fishing to learn his point of view. And in the end you can clearly see we believed the same. And never would I ever side with some religious type over Jesus. Had you paid attention you would have saved the effort and your own time with this un-needed post of yours plus my time having to explain it for you.
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yes i agree a realized much too late i had addressed the wrong person. sorry!
 
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