Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,463
590
113
Sorry, but you are wrong. Should I believe what the Bible clearly says or your theory?

I gave you the appropriate verses above. If you don't believe what they say, there is nothing more to discuss.
You should believe what the bible says, but you dont, you believe your theory
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
That makes Him the author and finisher of the faith, not our faith.
Right, that is exactly what Jesus is.



Furthermore,

"Looking [away and only - G872] unto Jesus..." is addressed to believers (not unbelievers, here--this is not in a context of a call to salvation): "let US run with patience the race that is set before US" (v.1)

[i.e. not "in order to" be / become "saved" (in this context)--but "running the race" (of the BELIEVER/ the saved person / saints)]
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,463
590
113
John 3:16-18, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

That clearly shows that there is a choice! 1) Believe in Christ and have eternal life or 2) do not believe in Christ and be condemned.

It's that simple! Why is this even being discussed???
No offer in Jn 3:16-18 save God offering His Son up for the sins of the elect.
 

jamessb

Active member
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
Again...

1) Believe in Christ and have eternal life or 2) do not believe in Christ and be condemned.

It's that simple! Why is this even being discussed???
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Must or will?
Revelation 3:20 is addressed to saved people who can hear. It is not an evangelical call. It is an instruction for believers.
Read the verses before and you discover it's a reprimand. So it's universal because everyone is reprimanded if they don't open the door.

I just showed you Romans 1 where God makes Himself known to all. And those who reject He gives them over to a reprobate mind. If you're saved, this won't apply.
 

jamessb

Active member
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
Those who Christ died for cant not believe, His death converts them to believers. So they have not a choice to not believe. And the ones who dont believe the word, they have no choice to believe, they were appointed to disobey the word 1 Pet 2:7-8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto[to that end] also they were appointed.
Christ died for everyone! (case closed!)

P.S. What do those out-of-context verses mean in English???
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
No offer in Jn 3:16-18 save God offering His Son up for the sins of the elect.
Num 21:6
And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Num 21:7
Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

Num 21:8
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Num 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.





[see Jn3:14-15]
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Those who Christ died for cant not believe, His death converts them to believers. So they have not a choice to not believe. And the ones who dont believe the word, they have no choice to believe, they were appointed to disobey the word 1 Pet 2:7-8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto[to that end] also they were appointed.
Abraham believed and Jesus had not died yet. Moses, Joshua, Caleb, David believed, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph...list is LONG here.
We can go as far back to Enoch, Noah, at least 2 of the sons of Noah who believed and Jesus had not died yet.
Your doctrine is severely flawed.
 

BillyBob

Active member
Dec 20, 2023
407
176
43
Texas
They confirmed that they have Chosen to Serve the Lord.
I have been following the back and forth debate between you and Brightfame52 and must confess that you are losing ground in your argument. For example:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.

This cannot mean all people on earth. Why? Because God does not send anything out which will return to Him Void! Therefore, He must bring it to those who are His chosen people.

You believe that it is offered to all and we must then accept that given salvation. In other words, we must perform a work to receive what was offered. That is not so. First our hearts must be changed. Who performs that process – the Spirit of God. Only then can we receive the offer which is freely given. Now that is GRACE beyond our understanding!

We must put our trust in what Christ has done for us not what we have done for Christ.

Consider the words of this hymn:
Thy work alone, O Christ,
can ease this weight of sin;
Thy blood alone, O Lamb of God,
can give me peace within.
Thy love to me, O God, not mine,
O Lord, to Thee,
can rid me of the dark unrest,
and set my spirit free.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
I have been following the back and forth debate between you and Brightfame52 and must confess that you are losing ground in your argument. For example:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people.

This cannot mean all people on earth. Why? Because God does not send anything out which will return to Him Void! Therefore, He must bring it to those who are His chosen people.

You believe that it is offered to all and we must then accept that given salvation. In other words, we must perform a work to receive what was offered. That is not so. First our hearts must be changed. Who performs that process – the Spirit of God. Only then can we receive the offer which is freely given. Now that is GRACE beyond our understanding!

We must put our trust in what Christ has done for us not what we have done for Christ.

Consider the words of this hymn:
Thy work alone, O Christ,
can ease this weight of sin;
Thy blood alone, O Lamb of God,
can give me peace within.
Thy love to me, O God, not mine,
O Lord, to Thee,
can rid me of the dark unrest,
and set my spirit free.
I expect the Reformed to stay with the Reformed.

What other reason is there for you to deny the words of God other than your doctrine?
Notice it says , (comma) and especially...
"""who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10

Notice 2 types of people God is speaking about here.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,075
6,882
113
62
Read the verses before and you discover it's a reprimand. So it's universal because everyone is reprimanded if they don't open the door.

I just showed you Romans 1 where God makes Himself known to all. And those who reject He gives them over to a reprobate mind. If you're saved, this won't apply.
I didn't say it was a reprimand, but an instruction.
Secondly, it is for those with ears to hear. Hearing is necessary for faith so it must be directed at believers.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
I didn't say it was a reprimand, but an instruction.
Secondly, it is for those with ears to hear. Hearing is necessary for faith so it must be directed at believers.
If God makes Himself known to those who reject them, they heard Him and said NO.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,463
590
113
Again...

1) Believe in Christ and have eternal life or 2) do not believe in Christ and be condemned.

It's that simple! Why is this even being discussed???
Those who dont believe its because they are not His Sheep that He died for, so they are condemned having not A Shepherd Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

One has to be not condemned in order to believe.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,463
590
113
Num 21:6
And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

Num 21:7
Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.

Num 21:8
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.

Num 21:9
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.





[see Jn3:14-15]
No offer
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,463
590
113
Abraham believed and Jesus had not died yet. Moses, Joshua, Caleb, David believed, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph...list is LONG here.
We can go as far back to Enoch, Noah, at least 2 of the sons of Noah who believed and Jesus had not died yet.
Your doctrine is severely flawed.
Those who Christ died for cant not believe, His death converts them to believers. So they have not a choice to not believe. And the ones who dont believe the word, they have no choice to believe, they were appointed to disobey the word 1 Pet 2:7-8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto[to that end] also they were appointed.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Those who Christ died for cant not believe, His death converts them to believers. So they have not a choice to not believe. And the ones who dont believe the word, they have no choice to believe, they were appointed to disobey the word 1 Pet 2:7-8

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto[to that end] also they were appointed.
Jesus said in John 8 that Abraham KNEW and rejoiced and Jesus was still alive, not dead yet.

Like I said, you don't the Bible, which is GOD's Word, you only know your doctrine.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
Thats about fellowship, not salvation
They are homosexuals!

You saying Homo's are in relationship with God?

You make me sick with your lack of knowledge and on here acting like you know.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
^
You just claimed Homosexuals are in relationship with God which God calls them an ABOMNATION!