Predestination is misunderstood...

That is why I use my signature at times. When all people want to do is argue. We are to discuss the Word of God with Grace and Truth and with a humble heart to see as many as possible saved. If there are two opposing Ideas need to put them before the Bible. The Bible is Truth anything opposed to it is not of the Truth. And it really gets to me, not in anger, but disappointment at how little some know, pushing their ideas and interpretation without Scripture backing.

My Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noone on Earth brings new revelation, that isn't already revealed through the Word of God (Jesus Christ), which is fullest revelation given to man. Through the moving and operation of the Holy Ghost, I Pray what we say here brings the truth of these Revelations, truth by truth, or precept upon precept, to the heart of the hearer. Lay what we say before the feet of Jesus (Word of God) and compare, the Bible is Always truth, so if they don't match, we need to reevaluate our stance. What we say or do here will have lasting impact upon the believer and sinner alike. We most certainly have freedom of speech, but any true christian will weigh what they say against the Word of God and if they don't agree God is not in error, and we need to pray for understanding. Those that have more meat of the Word can help those who are struggling, if done with humility, peace and love. I don't mind a peaceful debate, but when we start to argue amongst each other that is not the Spirit of God. God Bless and Peace to you all. (This signature is in general and not pointing fingers at anyone at anytime. God Bless.)
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That means faith is meaningless, which is not what the Scripture teaches.

Believers have a responsibility to point out error and guide others towards truth as part of their commitment to love, truth, and the spiritual well-being of the community. This responsibility is rooted in the broader biblical commands to love one's neighbor, to pursue righteousness, and to be agents of reconciliation and truth in the world. Several passages throughout the New Testament underscore this aspect of Christian duty:

Galatians 6:1 (NKJV): "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." This verse emphasizes the responsibility of believers to help restore those who have fallen into sin. The approach should be characterized by gentleness and self-awareness, highlighting the importance of humility and care in correcting others.
Matthew 18:15-17 (NKJV): "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Here, Jesus provides a process for addressing sin within the community, emphasizing the importance of private correction and the goal of reconciliation. It shows a structured approach to pointing out error, with the ultimate aim of restoration.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NKJV): "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching." Paul instructs Timothy—and by extension, all believers—to be diligent in teaching the truth of God's Word, which includes correcting errors and encouraging right living. This exhortation underscores the role of Scripture in guiding the process of correction and the need for patience and dedication in this task.
James 5:19-20 (NKJV): "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." James highlights the life-saving impact of correcting error and guiding someone back to the truth. It presents the act of pointing out error as an expression of care and concern for the spiritual state of others.

with meekness and fear: The manner in which believers are to defend their faith is critically important. "Meekness" suggests gentleness and humility, indicating that our defense should not be aggressive or confrontational but characterized by the humility that comes from understanding that our faith is a gift from God. "Fear" in this context refers to a deep respect or reverence for God, reminding believers that their ultimate accountability is to Him. This respectful approach ensures that the conversation about faith honors God and respects the dignity of the person asking.

These passages collectively illustrate that believers are indeed called to lovingly and carefully address error within the community, always aiming for the restoration and spiritual health of the individual. This responsibility is carried out within the context of a commitment to truth, love, humility, and the ultimate goal of salvation. It's important that such correction is done in a spirit of gentleness, respect, and love, reflecting the character of Christ.

Many are called few are chosen..

Being chosen does not mean you have to be moses


2 Corinthians 6:17

New International Version



17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”



Ephesians 1:4

New International Version



4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

The lord chose us in love. Which means his grace is given out of love. Not out of an unmerited favour.



John 3:16

New International Version



16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God so loved the whole world, which is the many


But His grace is given to whoever believes, which will be few people.

Whoever in the above passage, is no longer the whole world.

When the bible says whoever, that's when we discover the bible says whoever, means the few who will believe in him.

Many are called few are chosen.

So if you believe in Christ you are chosen not to perish.

1 Peter 2:9-10

New International Version



9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


Notice how is grace is given as mercy because he chose you, not because of an unmerited favor.

And once you are saved you will and should bare good fruit.

Yes true, but he would never go against His own word, which says everyone could be saved if they accept the offer of Salvation.

2 Peter 3:9 states, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." This verse reflects God's desire for all people to be saved, further challenging the notion that salvation is limited to a predetermined group without regard for individual response.

There is no one, who truly confesses Christ and Him Crucified, going to be turned away from God's grace. So if the whole world (hypothetically of course) choose to accept His offer of Salvation and confess Christ and Him Crucified, they would be with Him in Paradise.

2 Corinthians 6:17

New International Version



17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”

You have to stop touching what is unclean and only then will he receive you.

And only then will ye walk in his grace.
.

Is it your position that the natural man in a fallen estate can choose God independently of God?

So the application of grace depends on an individual to meet certain requirements to receive it?

that's what it says here.

You shouldn't be asking me that. Scripture clearly teaches all this
..

Many are called few are chosen..

Being chosen does not mean you have to be moses


2 Corinthians 6:17

New International Version



17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”



Ephesians 1:4

New International Version



4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love

The lord chose us in love. Which means his grace is given out of love. Not out of an unmerited favour.



John 3:16

New International Version



16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God so loved the whole world, which is the many


But His grace is given to whoever believes, which will be few people.

Whoever in the above passage, is no longer the whole world.

When the bible says whoever, that's when we discover the bible says whoever, means the few who will believe in him.

Many are called few are chosen.

So if you believe in Christ you are chosen not to perish.

1 Peter 2:9-10

New International Version



9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.


Notice how is grace is given as mercy because he chose you, not because of an unmerited favor.

And once you are saved you will and should bare good fruit.

On their own, people do not seek God or righteousness.

The Apostle Paul addresses the condition of humanity in its fallen state in Romans 3:10-12, quoting the Old Testament, "There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God." This passage suggests that sin has so affected humanity that, on their own, people do not seek God or righteousness. Furthermore, Ephesians 2:1 describes the natural state of humanity as being "dead in trespasses and sins." A key characteristic of something dead is its inability to initiate action; thus, in spiritual terms, a person in their natural, fallen state lacks the ability to turn towards God without divine intervention.

The concept of Total Depravity encapsulates this biblical view by asserting that sin affects all aspects of a person's being, including their will. Consequently, without the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, a person cannot come to faith in Christ. Jesus Himself highlights the necessity of divine enablement in John 6:44, saying, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him." This indicates that a response to God begins not with human initiative but with God's gracious action.

However, this does not mean humans are devoid of responsibility. The call to repent and believe the Gospel is universally extended (Mark 1:15; Acts 17:30). While it is God who enables a person to respond to Him through the Holy Spirit's regenerative work, individuals are still called to respond in faith and repentance. This mystery of divine sovereignty and human responsibility is held in tension throughout Scripture.

Sorry if I am not conveying what I believe well, but I am trying.

What people have tried to share with you is that grace has no conditions engendered in it. It is merely up to its giver to give or withhold at their good pleasure. What is engendered in grace is that it is not only undeserved, but if it is in some manner earned it doesn't qualify as grace...Romans 11:6. Grace is receiving something we do not deserve.
Mercy, on the other hand, is not receiving what we do deserve.
In salvation, both are evidenced.

2 Corinthians 6:17

New International Version



17 Therefore,
“Come out from them
and be separate,
says the Lord.
Touch no unclean thing,
and I will receive you.”

It quite clearly says here grace is given when a person surrenders to the lord.

And also separates himself from that which is unclean


If he does not receive you do you get saved by Grace.

If you dont sesperate yourself from the world does he receive you.

I don't care what the opinions have said in this thread.

If his mercy does not take flight in a persons heart, such person will not believe.

Such person will not separate.

Such person will carry on touching that which is unclean.

God talks to the heart and he does not judge like the natural man does on the outer appearance.

He judges your heart.

He calls all people with his grace. As I have already demonstrated, in Titus,

When he calls people to his grace he will also speak his grace in all people's hearts.

You can't judge like God

Faith is the only requirement to walk in God's grace.
faith is not categorized as a "work" in the sense of human effort that earns salvation.
faith is portrayed as the means by which we receive God's grace and the merits of Christ's redemptive work on the cross.

By definition, grace is the unmerited favor of God toward humanity. It is something that cannot be earned by human actions, efforts, or fulfillment of requirements. Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV) states, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." This passage clearly articulates that salvation is a gift from God received through faith, not a result of human works or merit. Grace, therefore, is fundamentally about what God has done for us in Christ, not about what we can do to earn it.

Moreover, Romans 11:6 (NKJV) emphasizes this point by saying, "And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work." This passage highlights the mutually exclusive nature of grace and works; if salvation were based on works, it would not be grace. The essence of grace is that it is freely given by God out of His love, mercy, and sovereign will, not because of any inherent worthiness or fulfillment of conditions by the recipients.

The New Testament teaches that the proper response to God's grace is faith — a trust in God and His promises, a reliance on Christ's finished work on the cross for our sins. While faith is the means through which we receive God's grace, it is not a "work" or a "requirement" in the sense of earning merit; rather, it is the acceptance of a gift. This faith itself is described in Scripture as a gift from God (Philippians 1:29), further underscoring the initiative of God in the process of salvation.

In summary, the biblical portrayal of grace is that of a free gift from God, given not because of any requirements met by individuals, but solely because of God's love and mercy. Salvation is thus based on God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not on human effort or merit, preserving the true character of grace as unmerited favor.

Your just making statements based on general opinions cited from dead beats friend, arguing over doctrine.

God judges the heart friend.

No person here can Judge like God can.

They all argue over works here everyday and there own free will.

And condemn people everyday here friend.

Your listening to dead people who have saved themselves friend.

But man is responsible before God at inception whether he acknowledges it or not. Romans 1 teaches of this accountability as well as John 3:17.
I agree that there is a call incumbent in the gospel to believe. But what is the impetus for belief? 2 people hear the same sermon. One gets saved and another does not. Why the different responses?

2 Corinthians 6 is written to believers. It is not dealing with salvation, but sanctification. Paul tells the people about his love and concern for them and instructs them on a number of areas where their conduct is no different from that of heathens. And he calls them out of the sin that they are engaging in and live acceptably before God.

Answer = To those that have ears to hear let them hear.

"those who have ears to hear, let them hear" ties directly into the varied responses individuals have to hearing the same sermon or the gospel message. This phrase, used by Jesus, emphasizes the role of spiritual receptivity in understanding and responding to divine truth. It holds the idea that not everyone will perceive or accept the message of the kingdom of God, not because the message itself lacks power or clarity, but because the condition of the hearers' hearts affects their ability to truly "hear" and respond.

In the context of the Parable of the Sower, which Jesus explains to His disciples, the different types of soil represent the various states of the human heart and its receptiveness to the word of God. The seed that falls on good soil and produces a harvest symbolizes those who "hear the word and understand it" (Matthew 13:23). These are the individuals who have "ears to hear" in the spiritual sense; they are open and responsive to the Holy Spirit's work, leading to genuine faith and transformation.

Conversely, the seed that falls on the path, rocky ground, or among thorns illustrates various reasons people fail to respond fruitfully to the gospel. These scenarios can be seen as examples of those who do not have "ears to hear." Whether it's due to a hardened heart, superficial acceptance, or the distractions and cares of this world, these individuals are unable to truly hear and embrace the message of salvation.

The phrase "those who have ears to hear, let them hear" serves as a call to self-examination and openness to the Holy Spirit. It's an invitation for individuals to consider their own receptiveness to God's word. Are they allowing the message of the gospel to penetrate deeply and produce change in their lives, or are they merely hearing without understanding or responding? This call underscores the importance of a prepared heart—one that is humble, receptive, and ready to be transformed by the truth.

Jesus explains that His use of parables serves both to reveal and to conceal truth (Matthew 13:10-17). To those with "ears to hear," parables unveil the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. However, for those with hardened hearts, the same parables obscure the truth. This dual function of parables fulfills prophecy and illustrates the sovereign work of God in salvation, where spiritual understanding is granted to some while being withheld from others based on their responsiveness to God's word.

In summary, the varied responses to hearing the word of God, as illustrated in the Parable of the Sower, are intimately connected to Jesus' admonition to have ears to hear. It highlights the necessity of spiritual openness and readiness to not only hear but also to truly listen and respond to the divine message, acknowledging the crucial role of the condition of one's heart in the process of receiving and living out the gospel. Without "ears to hear"—without spiritual openness and readiness to receive God's truth—individuals will struggle to discern the meaning behind Jesus' parables and the deeper truths of the gospel. The call to have "ears to hear" is a call to spiritual attentiveness and a receptive heart, which are crucial for understanding and embracing the truths of God's Kingdom as revealed in Scripture.

------------We have so much error rampant through this forum. Hopefully every believer listens.------------

Believers have a responsibility to point out error and guide others towards truth as part of their commitment to love, truth, and the spiritual well-being of the community. This responsibility is rooted in the broader biblical commands to love one's neighbor, to pursue righteousness, and to be agents of reconciliation and truth in the world. Several passages throughout the New Testament underscore this aspect of Christian duty:

Galatians 6:1 (NKJV): "Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted." This verse emphasizes the responsibility of believers to help restore those who have fallen into sin. The approach should be characterized by gentleness and self-awareness, highlighting the importance of humility and care in correcting others.
Matthew 18:15-17 (NKJV): "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector." Here, Jesus provides a process for addressing sin within the community, emphasizing the importance of private correction and the goal of reconciliation. It shows a structured approach to pointing out error, with the ultimate aim of restoration.
2 Timothy 4:2 (NKJV): "Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching." Paul instructs Timothy—and by extension, all believers—to be diligent in teaching the truth of God's Word, which includes correcting errors and encouraging right living. This exhortation underscores the role of Scripture in guiding the process of correction and the need for patience and dedication in this task.
James 5:19-20 (NKJV): "Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins." James highlights the life-saving impact of correcting error and guiding someone back to the truth. It presents the act of pointing out error as an expression of care and concern for the spiritual state of others.

with meekness and fear: The manner in which believers are to defend their faith is critically important. "Meekness" suggests gentleness and humility, indicating that our defense should not be aggressive or confrontational but characterized by the humility that comes from understanding that our faith is a gift from God. "Fear" in this context refers to a deep respect or reverence for God, reminding believers that their ultimate accountability is to Him. This respectful approach ensures that the conversation about faith honors God and respects the dignity of the person asking.

These passages collectively illustrate that believers are indeed called to lovingly and carefully address error within the community, always aiming for the restoration and spiritual health of the individual. This responsibility is carried out within the context of a commitment to truth, love, humility, and the ultimate goal of salvation. It's important that such correction is done in a spirit of gentleness, respect, and love, reflecting the character of Christ.

I am only presenting the truth of God's word it is up to you to have ears to hear.

"those who have ears to hear, let them hear" ties directly into the varied responses individuals have to hearing the same sermon or the gospel message. This phrase, used by Jesus, emphasizes the role of spiritual receptivity in understanding and responding to divine truth. It holds the idea that not everyone will perceive or accept the message of the kingdom of God, not because the message itself lacks power or clarity, but because the condition of the hearers' hearts affects their ability to truly "hear" and respond.

In the context of the Parable of the Sower, which Jesus explains to His disciples, the different types of soil represent the various states of the human heart and its receptiveness to the word of God. The seed that falls on good soil and produces a harvest symbolizes those who "hear the word and understand it" (Matthew 13:23). These are the individuals who have "ears to hear" in the spiritual sense; they are open and responsive to the Holy Spirit's work, leading to genuine faith and transformation.

Conversely, the seed that falls on the path, rocky ground, or among thorns illustrates various reasons people fail to respond fruitfully to the gospel. These scenarios can be seen as examples of those who do not have "ears to hear." Whether it's due to a hardened heart, superficial acceptance, or the distractions and cares of this world, these individuals are unable to truly hear and embrace the message of salvation.

The phrase "those who have ears to hear, let them hear" serves as a call to self-examination and openness to the Holy Spirit. It's an invitation for individuals to consider their own receptiveness to God's word. Are they allowing the message of the gospel to penetrate deeply and produce change in their lives, or are they merely hearing without understanding or responding? This call underscores the importance of a prepared heart—one that is humble, receptive, and ready to be transformed by the truth.

Jesus explains that His use of parables serves both to reveal and to conceal truth (Matthew 13:10-17). To those with "ears to hear," parables unveil the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven. However, for those with hardened hearts, the same parables obscure the truth. This dual function of parables fulfills prophecy and illustrates the sovereign work of God in salvation, where spiritual understanding is granted to some while being withheld from others based on their responsiveness to God's word.

In summary, the varied responses to hearing the word of God, as illustrated in the Parable of the Sower, are intimately connected to Jesus' admonition to have ears to hear. It highlights the necessity of spiritual openness and readiness to not only hear but also to truly listen and respond to the divine message, acknowledging the crucial role of the condition of one's heart in the process of receiving and living out the gospel. Without "ears to hear"—without spiritual openness and readiness to receive God's truth—individuals will struggle to discern the meaning behind Jesus' parables and the deeper truths of the gospel. The call to have "ears to hear" is a call to spiritual attentiveness and a receptive heart, which are crucial for understanding and embracing the truths of God's Kingdom as revealed in Scripture.

Can you tell me in your own words in a few sentences?

Are you wanting me to sum up what I just wrote in a few sentences is that right?