Predestination is misunderstood...

Your comment, "Well said the Psalmist...what is man, that Thou art mindful of him," beautifully resonates with Psalm 8:4, which indeed expresses the humble recognition of our finite nature in light of God's infinite greatness.

A thoughtful response to this insight could be:"Your observation is spot-on. Psalm 8:4 captures the essence of our contemplation of God, reminding us that we are but creatures, yet God deems us worthy of His attention and care. This verse encourages us to remain grounded in our understanding of ourselves and to acknowledge our place in the grand scheme of things, while still marveling at the wonder of God's presence in our lives."

Correct-we "presume" a tad too much.
J.

Your comment, "Well said the Psalmist...what is man, that Thou art mindful of him," beautifully resonates with Psalm 8:4, which indeed expresses the humble recognition of our finite nature in light of God's infinite greatness.

A thoughtful response to this insight could be:"Your observation is spot-on. Psalm 8:4 captures the essence of our contemplation of God, reminding us that we are but creatures, yet God deems us worthy of His attention and care. This verse encourages us to remain grounded in our understanding of ourselves and to acknowledge our place in the grand scheme of things, while still marveling at the wonder of God's presence in our lives."

Correct-we "presume" a tad too much.
J.

Or God deemed the Federal Head (the Second Man/Last Adam) of his people worthy. I take this view. After all, there is no good thing in unregenerate men. And only God alone is Good. So, what could God see in any fallen creature to make him worthy of his love, mercy, compassion or grace.

Your question raises profound theological questions about human worthiness before God and the nature of salvation through Christ. Here, I will attempt to provide a brief overview of the biblical perspective on these topics.

Federal Headship: According to the doctrine of federal headship, Adam represents humanity as the first man, and Christ serves as the last Adam, representing redeemed humanity. As the representative of humankind, Adam's sin resulted in condemnation for all humans, whereas Christ's obedience brings redemption and reconciliation to those who place their trust in Him.

Unregenerate Humans: The Bible teaches that apart from Christ, humans are unable to please God or earn salvation through their own efforts. Instead, we are sinners deserving of divine wrath and punishment.

God's Love, Mercy, Compassion, and Grace: Despite our unworthiness, God extends His love, mercy, compassion, and grace to us through Christ. The Bible reveals that God loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for our sins, thereby making it possible for us to receive forgiveness and eternal life.

Justification Through Faith: We cannot become acceptable to God through our own merits or works. Rather, justification comes through faith in Christ, whose death and resurrection secure our salvation.

Sanctification: Once justified by faith, Christians begin a process of sanctification, wherein the Holy Spirit transforms us into the image of Christ, enabling us to live lives pleasing to God.

In summary, despite our unworthiness, God offers His love, mercy, compassion, and grace to us through Christ. Our acceptance before God comes not through our own merits but through faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rose again to give us new life.
J.

where the Israelites practicing faith before they where exiled, ?

Answer No

Where people moved by the holy spirit, before they received the holy spirit, ?

answer No

Did people walk with God and stil reject God,

answer yes

Did people walk with God, and God still put them to death.

answer yes.

So the answer is, it's possible to have faith that does not receive salvation

Adam was our Condemnation - First Adam.
Jesus is our Justification - Second Adam.

God tests us for us to learn and to know what He does know.

For we will need to know why we will be evaluated by God as it will be done.
So, for that reason? God does need to test us.....


grace and peace ...........

Your first two questions were answered.

They never had faith, its why they complained from the day they left until the day they died.

These people walked with God and would have done as they where told.

I suppose none of this is true too

God must of heard there prayers, for him to say I will no longer hear your prayers.

Theese are all people who either have faith or practice faith, who all deny works, it's when there faith become Dead, because God will not hear there prayers.


: You ignore the poor.
Proverbs 21:13 says, “One who shuts his ear to the outcry of the poor will also call out himself, and not be answered.” In no uncertain terms, God takes our care of the poor very seriously. Are you knowingly and pompously ignoring the cries of the needy? Your prayer life could suffer.


2: You doubt that God can give you wisdom.
James 1:5-7 is one of the only passages in the New Testament that actually does say that faith can get you what you want, as long as wisdom is what you want. James writes,
“But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. For that person ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,”
When asking God for wisdom, doubt can get in the way of you receiving an answer.

3: You’re being prideful.
James 4:6 shows the opposition of God when the proud refuse to be humble saying, “But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
Pride is the antithesis of a thriving prayer life.


4: You are unjustly violent.
Isaiah 1:15 records the word of the Lord regarding unjust violence saying, “So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you offer many prayers, I will not be listening. Your hands are covered with blood.”
That is the God of the Bible, purposely ignoring prayers.


5: You’re insensitive to your wife.
1 Peter 3:7 is one of the most frightening passages for husbands as it speaks of the consequences of dishonoring your wife saying, “You husbands in the same way, live with your wives in an understanding way, as with someone weaker, since she is a woman; and show her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers will not be hindered.”
When a husband is not showing honor to his wife, his prayers are bouncing right back down off the ceiling.



6: You have selfish motives.
James 4:3 says, “You ask and do not receive, because you ask with the wrong motives, so that you may spend what you request on your pleasures.”
The wrong motives can impact your prayer life in such a way that God doesn’t give you what you’re asking for, no matter how much you beg.


7: You love your sin so much.
Psalm 66:18 says, “If I regard wickedness in my heart, The Lord will not hear…”
The Psalmist knew that God does not tolerate wickedness as His roommate in the human heart.


8: You mistreat God’s people.
Micah 3:2-5 is a passage containing vivid imagery of what God thinks of those who mistreat His people, including false prophets and leaders. When you mess with God’s precious saints, He does not hear you even when you cry out. The prophet Micah warned:
“You who hate good and love evil,
Who tear off their skin from them
And their flesh from their bones,
Who eat the flesh of my people,
Strip off their skin from them,
Smash their bones,
And chop them up as for the pot,
And as meat in a cauldron!”
Then they will cry out to the Lord,
But He will not answer them.
Instead, He will hide His face from them at that time
Because they have practiced evil deeds.”
— Micah 3:2-5

I think you have the ability to lead many people to hell with your pride

Sanctification: Once justified by faith, Christians begin a process of sanctification, wherein the Holy Spirit transforms us into the image of Christ, enabling us to live lives pleasing to God.

It's ridiculous brother that people have started a thread about a person, can not be chosen to be saved, but yet the same people will not accept you can be chosen and rejected,

Don't you think this is just a bit silly.

I mean should we not discuss predestinated, and God's will as God understands it's, through God's character, and where he has disciplined, and have given warnings to.

I'm not sure we could believe the views of people, who reject the basic simplest most important teachings there is, concerning being baptised.

Who are now preaching how free will and pre destination works, and at the same time people are giving them appraisals and approving there insults, and mockery of people.

Your question raises profound theological questions about human worthiness before God and the nature of salvation through Christ. Here, I will attempt to provide a brief overview of the biblical perspective on these topics.

Federal Headship: According to the doctrine of federal headship, Adam represents humanity as the first man, and Christ serves as the last Adam, representing redeemed humanity. As the representative of humankind, Adam's sin resulted in condemnation for all humans, whereas Christ's obedience brings redemption and reconciliation to those who place their trust in Him.

Unregenerate Humans: The Bible teaches that apart from Christ, humans are unable to please God or earn salvation through their own efforts. Instead, we are sinners deserving of divine wrath and punishment.

God's Love, Mercy, Compassion, and Grace: Despite our unworthiness, God extends His love, mercy, compassion, and grace to us through Christ. The Bible reveals that God loves us so much that He sent His Son to die for our sins, thereby making it possible for us to receive forgiveness and eternal life.

Justification Through Faith: We cannot become acceptable to God through our own merits or works. Rather, justification comes through faith in Christ, whose death and resurrection secure our salvation.

Sanctification: Once justified by faith, Christians begin a process of sanctification, wherein the Holy Spirit transforms us into the image of Christ, enabling us to live lives pleasing to God.

In summary, despite our unworthiness, God offers His love, mercy, compassion, and grace to us through Christ. Our acceptance before God comes not through our own merits but through faith in Christ, who died for our sins and rose again to give us new life.
J.

You know all this which is correct,but still you deny you must be baptised to be saved. (Totally puzzling).

no they where not questions they where statements of truth.

The post you quote is only the half of the actually reality I followed up with in post 827, which I'm still waiting for an answer to.

Being sanctified occurs the moment one calls upon the name of the Lord for salvation and receives the Holy Spirit. Paul tells the carnal Christians at Corinth that they are sanctified. Sanctified means to be set apart.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

What?

The truth was God was going to give them a new land,

They proved from the time they hit the red sea until they refused to walk in due to unbeliefe, they never had faith in God to keep his promise


You will be waiting awhile. they do not prove your case.

We are saved by grace through faith

if you have no faith (it is dead) your not saved,

period.

Also. I suggest you cut the attitude.. Your doing what you are saying everyone else is doing to you..

Being sanctified occurs the moment one calls upon the name of the Lord for salvation and receives the Holy Spirit. Paul tells the carnal Christians at Corinth that they are sanctified. Sanctified means to be set apart.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hi Folks, below you'll find a link that will refute the eight major arguments against the doctrine of Predestination. These eight arguments typically are:

1. That it is Fatalism

2. That it is Inconsistent with the Free Agency and Moral Responsibility of Man

3. That it Makes God the Author of Sin

4. That it Discourages All Motives to Exertion

5. That it Represents God as a Respecter of Persons or as Unjustly Partial

6. That it is Unfavorable to Good Morality

7. That it Precludes a Sincere Offer of the Gospel to the Non-Elect

8. That it Contradicts the Universalistic Scripture Passages

The writer of this long article is Loraine Boettner. Some of these arguments are closely worded, so if anyone desires to read through these, you'll have to "gird up the loins of your mind", for we are traversing deep theological waters.

https://www.the-highway.com/objections1_Boettner.html