Predestination is misunderstood...

well I've said it all along and Ill say it again,

Your own free will, will take you to hell,

The gifts of the holy spirit are a better state of free will 😃

How could believing in Jesus be saving oneself?

How is granting a surgeon to operate on you for an emergency be saving yourself?

To believe in Jesus? And to boast about oneself as for being great for believing?
Would be like someone accepting a check for a million dollars, and then claiming how great they were for doing so.

The very thought that you are someone special for believing in Christ is a ludicrous.
For it should be a normal and sane thing to do. How can accepting the Lord of Glory make you look great?
That's crazy.

It would be like a thirsty person boasting about how great he was for accepting a free glass of spring water.

We are saved by grace...

It would be absolutely impossible to believe in Christ without God's grace holding down your flesh.
Our flesh is diametrically opposed to the Spirit of God!

Our soul is not our flesh, and the flesh is not our soul.

Our soul that was a slave under the flesh until God's grace saved us from not being able to believe!

once you sing the song about falling away, you can accept it with grace, ware the tea shirt, and call upon the name of the lord. 😊

Obviously you wanted to go off on a nonsensical tangent to distract others away from concentrating on what I said.....

Interesting side note... Back in the 60's Christine McVie and I used to date.

Thomas i said the gifts of the holy spirit are a better state of free will, and not your interpretation of it, 😊

I'm talking about "freed" will. You keep talking about free will.
There is no such thing as naturally having free will in relation to knowing God.

It must be a "freed" will. Freed by God's power of grace.

Since Adam's fall man can not have a free will in relation to seeking God.
Grace saves us from our plight, by empowering our soul to make free our soul's will from bondage to the flesh.

there's a gift of rhw holy spirit called self control, could you see how that might be a better state of free will for you 😄

Let me explain it for you

A fruit of the spirit called self control, is the active effort to help you to resist temptation and going back to your old ways when you had your own free will.

So this fruit is a better state of free will 👍

Since you can't think straight and now think I am someone named Thomas....

You are going on Ignore.

You are still completely ignorant of what the will (theEma) and to will (thelein) are biblically. Coming is an action not a desire. Now, if if you can show that no one can want to come unless the Father makes them want to come, you could say the will is constrained. Your will is not constrained by anything. You can want the most ridiculous and impossible things, and no one can stop you wanting them, if you want to keep on wanting them.

yep I knew you would doubt that one too 😄

You present logical fallacies. Does God make us, or enable us? There is a difference, but such distinctions escape you.

Did you circumcise your own heart? I doubt it very much. You were made alive when you were DEAD.


Jesus’ words in John 6:65

What logical fallacy?

God enables everyone to come. He has made the gospel very easy, even a child can understand and be saved. And He has commanded that the gospel be proclaimed to every creature. Whoever has ears to hear, he is commanded to listen. So, only the deaf are possibly excluded from that command. But then they could read, which is a kind of hearing, as far as the gospel is concerned.

If God enables everyone, why don't all who hear come? Answer... They don't want/will to come.

Do you think that "No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him" means that all who are drawn come?

Do you think that "No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him" excludes all those people who came to Jesus to argue with Him about the things the Father was giving Him to say and do, but refused to believe in Him?

Tell me lies Thomas 😃

Tell me sweet little lies 😁😊🌈😋

Jesus was chosen and so were we, in Him.

yup. predestination is misunderstood, all right.

That statement needs to be clarified. And this verse makes it clear: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

So the ones who were chosen in Christ are the ones whom God foreknew as being believers. These believers would be (1) washed in the blood of the Lamb, (2) sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and (3) made obedient to God and Christ. They would be elected and predestined to be transformed into the the likeness of Christ.